[WEC] Ginetta LMP1

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I think they are forbidden from entering as Ginetta THIS season as the entry was TRSM. If they wanted to enter the 2019-2020 season it would be a new entry and thus no fines stopping them from racing and changing entry name

No fines yes but they cannot enter the cars as Ginetta because it'd be considered a factory entry and nonhybrids can't do that. Even though the original intention in 2017 was to allow it

So they'd need to either find the customer or camouflage it some other way, sort of like the second Manor entry already was

Anyway surely BoP would be crap for them in the 2020-21 season (and 21-22 if that happens) because those hyper OEM whatevers will take priority, so in reality only next season makes sense if one wishes to run these things

Originally Posted by Tique

It is disappointing. They have enough space at Spa in order to accommodate an extra car. Especially a LMP1. I really don’t understand this as good performance might make things happen for this car. I believe that the cost of the Ginetta will not be very expensive as at this stage they just want it on track.

Spa has enough space (with the second 24h paddock) to faciliate both WEC and ELMS grids simultaneously for 70+ car race...

[ApexTurtle]

Originally Posted by Chiana

No fines yes but they cannot enter the cars as Ginetta because it'd be considered a factory entry and nonhybrids can't do that.

Where did you read that? All I got was that they don't want to enter as Ginetta themselves, not that they can't.

[Mike E]

Sporting Regulations
3.2.3 Specific conditions of entry in the LMP1 category (hybrid and non-hybrid cars)
Homologation of non-hybrid LMP1 cars is accessible only to privateers as specified in the Technical Regulations in effect (Article1.1.1).

Technical Regulations
1.1.1 "LE MANS" PROTOTYPE 1 category includes:
• "LE MANS" PROTOTYPE 1 : with no Energy Recovery System (ERS)
reserved only for privateers.
• "LE MANS" PROTOTYPE 1 Hybrid ("LM" P1-H): with Energy
Recovery System (ERS).

[Deleted]

The same thing that's been enforced since 2014, yes

Meanwhile Signatech is allowed to have Alpine name both on their spec Oreca chassis as well as in the team name... Makes sense

[ApexTurtle]

I guess the point I'm trying to make is whether Ginetta would be classified as not a privateer.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by joeb

It would cost them the fine they currently have hanging over this entry for missing rounds.

ACO aren't going to get that money anyway! It would take only a little imagination and goodwill to invite Ginetta to run a car at Spa on a non-scoring basis. I'm sure none of the teams would object. Heck, have the Ginetta start from the pitlane. Just get it on the track!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The same thing that's been enforced since 2014, yes

Meanwhile Signatech is allowed to have Alpine name both on their spec Oreca chassis as well as in the team name... Makes sense

I take issue with that too, but Rebellion have TVR branding, and those guys are a manufacturer. I wonder what the difference is. But I think TVR is just a sponsor vs Signatech having Alpine as their chassis constructor or whatever they call it, even though we know it's an Oreca. One thing I noticed though, Alpine is French, maybe some countrymen favoritism going on here? I've pointed out this before and I can't guess any other reason they get a pass.

[ApexTurtle]

Aurus gets a pass too. But they're Russian, that makes no sense, now we can't be terrible about the French!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

Aurus gets a pass too. But they're Russian, that makes no sense, now we can't be terrible about the French!

But is the car branded Aurus or is it just a major sponsor?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

But is the car branded Aurus or is it just a major sponsor?

Their Oreca chassis has been fake-rebranded to Aurus just like Alpine, in the official timing sheets, too

At least the TVR thing is just stickers, not full fakery

Even things like 'Ligier' and 'Morgan' and 'Lotus' and whatever other $$$ naming deals we've had, at least those were used in unique chassis

[chernaudi]

Not so much Morgan, as the car was Onroak's version of the Pescarolo 01, a design that actually traced it's lineage back to the Courage C60 of 2000.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

I take issue with that too, but Rebellion have TVR branding, and those guys are a manufacturer. I wonder what the difference is. But I think TVR is just a sponsor vs Signatech having Alpine as their chassis constructor or whatever they call it, even though we know it's an Oreca. One thing I noticed though, Alpine is French, maybe some countrymen favoritism going on here? I've pointed out this before and I can't guess any other reason they get a pass.

Certainly the 'rules' changed to suit Alpine. They got a pass for the first season because Alpine hadn't started selling cars yet. So fair enough really. Second season they'd started selling cars, but the branding was kept. Once the door was open for Alpine, that was that - you can't go back or deny it now.

It's a shame that G-Drive didn't buy an ex-Signatech chassis. Then it could've have had 3 chassis plates. If we're going to be stupid then we might as well go full fat stupid and do it properly.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Not so much Morgan, as the car was Onroak's version of the Pescarolo 01, a design that actually traced it's lineage back to the Courage C60 of 2000.

Just as Orecas were descendants of Courage LC70

[KA]

Originally Posted by Chiana

The same thing that's been enforced since 2014, yes

Meanwhile Signatech is allowed to have Alpine name both on their spec Oreca chassis as well as in the team name... Makes sense

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

I guess the point I'm trying to make is whether Ginetta would be classified as not a privateer.

I wonder if they could get away with reviving the old 'Team LNT' identity from when Tomlinson was running TVR and Panoz GT cars and the first Ginetta-branded LMP?

There's a report on DSC that they've just had a test at Aragon, alongside Rebellion, SMP and a couple of LMP2s (United and Alpine) and seem to have had a pretty decent run- 170 laps, one mechanical issue (gearbox) and mixing it with Rebellion and SMP on lap times.

The report does mention that Ginetta no longer have a factory race crew- the car was run at Aragon by the designer, tech director, race engineer, 4 of the production staff, plus the usual guys from AER, Bosch, Michelin etc.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...agon-test.html

[Mike E]

Can anything be read into Anders Fjordbach testing the Ginetta? Seems a bit random.

[FIRE]

Still a nice looking car.

[S griffin]

I actually think the silver makes it look nicer

[Akrapovic]

Beyond the amount of years left to run this car (which someone already mentioned), it's a tough sell to convince a team to buy these when Dallara will build you a BR1.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Beyond the amount of years left to run this car (which someone already mentioned), it's a tough sell to convince a team to buy these when Dallara will build you a BR1.

Or just buy the Dragonspeed Dallara if they ditch the chassis after LM, which I think they might seeing as their P1 campaign has been fairly lackluster in comparison to P2 (and their bronze boss always looks displeased)

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I actually think the silver makes it look nicer

It looked pretty darned good in blue up close last June.....

[Mike E]

The claim that the Mecachrome was over 100bhp short of its rivals is alarming. That would mean it was producing less power than Gibson's LMP2 engine.

It sounded lovely from trackside. You can sort of hear it at 2:00 and 4:20 in this video https://youtu.be/5ms7Vur_wns

[TF110]

If that's true then it explains why Ginetta was only capable of doing a 3:25/3:26 last year. Glad it's testing but only 170 laps/1000km at Aragon over 3 days means they still have a way to go.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TF110

If that's true then it explains why Ginetta was only capable of doing a 3:25/3:26 last year. Glad it's testing but only 170 laps/1000km at Aragon over 3 days means they still have a way to go.

Did you read the report on DSC? Seems weather played a large roll in the testing mileage. I think the Ginetta folks know they have a decent car and this was a great opportunity to show it off a bit. Not sure who is in the market for an lmp1 these days but it seems to have potential is someone wants to give it a go.

[Akrapovic]

Remember the car also had no low downforce kit. Not all the blame can be dropped on the engine supplier.

[Juntos]

There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world of sportscars. Ginetta is good on PR but I don't think it will be enough to see that car running again in private hands.