2019 TCR UK rumours and discussion

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Rob877

Pretty harsh on autograss there! I'm always surprised by the level of ignorance from circuit racing crowds towards the oval racing world. Both autograss and stock car racing exhibit some seriously impressive levels of engineering and driving talent, and indeed most of the time more exciting racing to watch to boot.

Kinda goes against the £500 cars someone else mentioned a couple of posts back.... ?

What the defenders of autocross seem to have missed is that when talking about club level racing in a forum focus'd on tarmac racing; Defining club level racing as autocross is entirely wrong.

I race and I've attended autocross events (blyton park being a recent one).. and I know where the challenge is... and it's not on muddy ovals.

Also, those stating that people have started in autocross/oval then moved on or "up" to circuit racing.... what does that tell you about the disciplines ? To me that says they wanted more of a challenge rather than turning one direction all the time.

But hey, what do I know... I only actually spend my had earned cash doing the thing were talking about.

[VIVA GT]

Wasn't Derek Warwick a past F1 Stock Car champion?

[S griffin]

He was, that's how he got started in motorsport

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by auroan

I race and I've attended autocross events (blyton park being a recent one).. and I know where the challenge is... and it's not on muddy ovals.

There's a certain art to being consistently quick on a 'muddy oval'.

Originally Posted by auroan

Also, those stating that people have started in autocross/oval then moved on or "up" to circuit racing.... what does that tell you about the disciplines ? To me that says they wanted more of a challenge rather than turning one direction all the time.

So let me get this right:

Oval racing < Circuit racing (as more than one cornering direction).

Therefore, following the same logic:

Circuit racing < Rallying (lots of corners - not just the same ones all the time, no namby pamby gravel traps and tyre walls, different surfaces - not just nice smooth tarmac all the time).

Makes you wonder why anyone bothers with ovals and circuit racing really

Originally Posted by auroan

But hey, what do I know... I only actually spend my had earned cash doing the thing were talking about.

Good on you I spend mine sitting in the passenger seat of a rally car, my driver spends his on the car (and has done rallycross in it too), one of our service crew races in Autograss (twin Hyabusa engined semi spaceframe car, his daughter also races in Autograss). That's what's so good about motorsport - you can find something to suit somewhere - is any discipline 'better' than another? Only in the eye of the beholder.

[Alfisti]

As long as you're enjoying yourself it's all good in my books Whether that's driving, co-driving, designing, building, mechanicing, marshalling or spectating.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Anyone know what the differences in costs are between top level Sim racing, and say club level actual racing?

A 'cheap' season of karting or club racing would cost around £3-10k depending on what you race or you could do a season of StoxKarts (Short track karts) for £1.5k or MASCAR (Miniature NASCAR) for around £3.5k including a pair of rounds in Europe. European oval racing is definitely worth it in my books, affordable rates for relatively stock machinery and at some events there is prize money to be won.

Racing is still affordable if you look in the right places, but I think culturally society has changed and really if you want to be competitive you do have to shell out a bit of money. Plus, motorsport isn't anywhere near as popular as it was 30-40 years ago and to 'make it' you have to commit and risk a lot financially.

Fewer people are willing to spend that much money in a sport with such a small likelihood of making it to a professional level, more so when you go up against some competitors with bigger budgets and better equipment - a big problem in the more popular one-make kart classes (Rotax and X30) where engine builders strip multiple engines to obtain the best parts for over-priced 'Grade A' engines.

Alternatively, just go to your local kart track - most tracks in the UK do arrive and drive kart championships from £50 per race.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alessio

Racing is still affordable if you look in the right places, but I think culturally society has changed and really if you want to be competitive you do have to shell out a bit of money. Plus, motorsport isn't anywhere near as popular as it was 30-40 years ago and to 'make it' you have to commit and risk a lot financially.

Fewer people are willing to spend that much money in a sport with such a small likelihood of making it to a professional level, more so when you go up against some competitors with bigger budgets and better equipment

And this is part of the problem with the way TCR was pitched (bloody hell - back on topic ) - it's essentially an expensive 'arrive and drive' championship. You can do full championships in other categories (MINI, Clios or VW cup) for less money and/or better exposure. As far as I can see there's no advantage for a driver in running in TCR in the UK - from a team point of view owning the cars means that you can run in the UK or anywhere that has a TCR championship so in theory at least you can 'sweat the asset' and have the car out earning money more often. The problem is the UK championship is/was too expensive for drivers, therefore for UK teams at least it's not worth investing in the cars (with Motorbase being a high profile example of finding there's no takers for the drives).

[medius]

This^

Exposure vs cost has always been the problem. It's a tough sell for driver and teams to sponsors. The well heel driver would rather invest their coin elsewhere.

Maximum Group are the right guys to change that situation but its not an overnight job. I expect this year to be a build up to a 2020 relaunch done right.

[pescaraproductions]

Originally Posted by medius

This^

Exposure vs cost has always been the problem. It's a tough sell for driver and teams to sponsors. The well heel driver would rather invest their coin elsewhere.

Maximum Group are the right guys to change that situation but its not an overnight job. I expect this year to be a build up to a 2020 relaunch done right.

The TV coverage they got in year one was hardly amazing anyway, managing to miss the crash right under their noses of an 8 car field at Oulton was the highlight of their season. Standards of Motorsport broadcasting seem to have dropped big time sadly. I can see it being relaunched and on the Brit GT schedule, that way Lines can keep it under the same folk who film his VW Cup lot and replace the Minis, I just hope it has a staff shakeup and they have a couple away rounds that BTCC don't do. That was always the appeal for a lot of us.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by pescaraproductions

The TV coverage they got in year one was hardly amazing anyway, managing to miss the crash right under their noses of an 8 car field at Oulton was the highlight of their season. Standards of Motorsport broadcasting seem to have dropped big time sadly. I can see it being relaunched and on the Brit GT schedule, that way Lines can keep it under the same folk who film his VW Cup lot and replace the Minis, I just hope it has a staff shakeup and they have a couple away rounds that BTCC don't do. That was always the appeal for a lot of us.

i dont ever see it being relauched on its own. the tcr name is damaged goods in this country. it will stay as a class in tct. and besides tct needs whatever tcr cars they can get or tct will also die through lack of entries.

[TR4racer]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

i dont ever see it being relauched on its own. the tcr name is damaged goods in this country. it will stay as a class in tct. and besides tct needs whatever tcr cars they can get or tct will also die through lack of entries.

Shame really as it is doing so well elsewhere in Europe and on the world stage....massive grids and top drivers. I guess that is why so many BTCC drivers are looking at it as the next step in their career...that alongside factory contracts and good money

[S griffin]

Well the organisers only have themselves to blame. They didn’t promote it enough, nor was it good value for money either

[pescaraproductions]

It is doing well abroad but it seems to have dipped a bit this year, too successful for its own good and expanding too quickly maybe? I think a lot of BTCC driver look to TCR as its a more pure form of racing, its a little less gimmicky with reverse grids, tire saving and seemingly rules for some drivers and not others. Plus the sheer amount of luck and consistency that's needed to win it, makes me wonder if there are some guys on the BTCC grid that would rather just go flat out from start to finish and not have to worry about the many variables on the BTCC grid. Plus I always hear it is cheaper to race in Europe now. Like I said they genuinely picked a good time to try it, but they made such a spectacular mess of it towards the end. I hope Maximum can do something with it, but what they put up on their Facebook page a few weeks ago was a bit weird and hardly the professional start I expected, plus there's always the fear it'll become just another support category that does all the BTCC tracks and nothing else. I don't think most re following it like they were now though.

There's 5 TCR cars entered this weekend for Britcar. Maybe that shows where the interest truly lies.

[Rob877]

I'm pretty sure the only BTCC driver of note that has gone to TCR is Shedden. I think the only reason some drivers are looking at it is because there is the potential of get paid, a rare thing in motorsport these days.

I would also say that TCR and BTCC pretty much share all of the 'gimmicky' sporting regulations listed above, I wouldn't exactly say that TCR is pure motorsport as much as BTCC is.

I think ultimately the UK was always going to be the most difficult country for TCR to gain a foothold. Before the advent of TCR there was three countries that had a successful, popular touring car series (Australia, Germany and UK). Because V8s and DTM are so wildly different to TCR cars there was always going to be an opportunity to break in to these markets without becoming direct competitors. But BTCC and TCR are broadly very similar, but BTCC has a 60 year pedigree and 60 years worth of exposure to try and combat. They were always on to a loser with this in all honesty.

[S griffin]

To be fair at least the managed to get through a season. They got further than SCV8, T1 and BTEC

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by S griffin

To be fair at least the managed to get through a season. They got further than SCV8, T1 and BTEC

but thats even worse!
at least teams didnt invest or waste their money in those other series that didnt happen.

but with tcr uk some teams and drivers spent real money investing in cars and equipment for a series that effectively failed after just one season.

thats really terrible.

[Umai Naa]

Judging by posts on FB, it seems as though Mr Wilson may not be driving the Astra himself, or perhaps not even in TCT/TCRUK.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

but thats even worse!
at least teams didnt invest or waste their money in those other series that didnt happen.

but with tcr uk some teams and drivers spent real money investing in cars and equipment for a series that effectively failed after just one season.

thats really terrible.

This bloke would find something to complain about if he found a tenner in the street.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by peebee2

This bloke would find something to complain about if he found a tenner in the street.

if you spent hundreds of thousand of pounds of your own money buying a car and parts and equipment for a standalone hyped championship that promised the world but was effectively canned after just one year then you think thats something that shouldnt be complained about!!

its totally disgusting that tcruk did this and amazing that some people on here think thats ok.

[Rob877]

No one forced people to buy the machinery though. I know with hindsight it's easy to say, but the general consensus on here from memory was that the series would struggle and that there was no real need for it in the UK.

The touring car market (including the ladder up to it) in the UK is already at bursting point, there was no need for ANOTHER series diluting the driver/fan/team pool even further. I would say this is a problem with most forms of motorsport though, too many series doing the same or similar things as each other all competing for the same diminishing driver base. It's mental.

[Johno.UK]

Originally Posted by Rob877

The touring car market (including the ladder up to it) in the UK is already at bursting point, there was no need for ANOTHER series diluting the driver/fan/team pool even further. I would say this is a problem with most forms of motorsport though, too many series doing the same or similar things as each other all competing for the same diminishing driver base. It's mental.

Totally agree with that.

[medius]

Any noise of any subject from DPE? The Alfa experiment didn't really work out for many many reasons. I'm guessimg Senior doesn't want to fund the team for another go from his own pocket?

[Umai Naa]

Well they're down to one chassis, of which both were allegedly owned by Alfa Romeo UK.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

if you spent hundreds of thousand of pounds of your own money buying a car and parts and equipment for a standalone hyped championship that promised the world but was effectively canned after just one year then you think thats something that shouldnt be complained about!!

its totally disgusting that tcruk did this and amazing that some people on here think thats ok.

That's business for you. Most of the teams jumped on it because it should have been an easy way to make money.

All the cars & equipment could be moved on at a similar price so there should not be massive losses

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Rob877

I think ultimately the UK was always going to be the most difficult country for TCR to gain a foothold. Before the advent of TCR there was three countries that had a successful, popular touring car series (Australia, Germany and UK). Because V8s and DTM are so wildly different to TCR cars there was always going to be an opportunity to break in to these markets without becoming direct competitors. But BTCC and TCR are broadly very similar, but BTCC has a 60 year pedigree and 60 years worth of exposure to try and combat. They were always on to a loser with this in all honesty.

But even those countries can't count TCR as a success: Australia has 16 entries for this year, though only 7 of them actually have a confirmed driver.

Germany is doing slightly better with 19, but still a long way from a full grid.