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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:06 (Ref:3785149)   #1
kittle
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DJRTP Seeks Clarification/Education On McLaughlin Speeding Penalty

According to Noon's, DJTP are protesting the pit lane speed penalty as they are adamant they didn't exceed the 40 kph limit.

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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:16 (Ref:3785150)   #2
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What could possibly be changed by winning that protest? Is it purely about vindication?

Also, has it been confirmed wether Supercars use a radar or GPS timing loop for enforcing the pit lane limit?
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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:37 (Ref:3785152)   #3
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What could possibly be changed by winning that protest? Is it purely about vindication?
Why to embarrass CAMS of course, and perhaps to make sure proper procedures are followed in future?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 01:01 (Ref:3785165)   #4
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Also, has it been confirmed wether Supercars use a radar or GPS timing loop for enforcing the pit lane limit?
not radar, nor GPS but they use a timing loop at pit entry. Confirmed in article from Bairdo previously linked in this thread.
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 01:03 (Ref:3785166)   #5
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not radar, nor GPS but they use a timing loop at pit entry. Confirmed in article from Bairdo previously linked in this thread.
Are timing loops considered a good way of achieving the task?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 01:07 (Ref:3785168)   #6
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Are timing loops considered a good way of achieving the task?
the time taken to travel between two points is a definite science/mathmatical equation

however why was there also a radar guy at the track as well
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 01:54 (Ref:3785172)   #7
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Are timing loops considered a good way of achieving the task?
2 timing loops 5 metres apart at pit entry is very effective - accurate to 1/10,000th of a second.
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 10:02 (Ref:3785225)   #8
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What could possibly be changed by winning that protest? Is it purely about vindication?
It isn't a protest. Regardless of the outcome of this meet and greet, the result cannot be changed as you cannot protest a decision made by a Judge of Fact. (NCR 181A (i) )


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Also, has it been confirmed wether Supercars use a radar or GPS timing loop for enforcing the pit lane limit?
They use neither. They have laser devices in the lane, and two loops 5m apart at pit entry.

If there was an error in the distance between the two loops, then more cars would have been pinged for speeding.

If the transponder was faulty or failing, the timing team would have been able to detect that and therefore not put as much trust in the result. It wasn't faulty or failing

At this juncture, Supercars have an absolute time measurement over the 5m distance. The only way that anyone could possibly say that Supercars is wrong is if the team has one source of information that clearly shows the time taken to transit the lane. Linking data to video to assume where a vehicle is (to a margin of error of 0.0212 seconds as taken from spooks post above) is not going to be feasibly good enough to be relied upon.
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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:38 (Ref:3785153)   #9
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surely DJRTP want to know how they got it wrong so they can learn from this for next time

happens in ball sports all the time
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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:40 (Ref:3785156)   #10
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surely DJRTP want to know how they got it wrong so they can learn from this for next time

happens in ball sports all the time
Except they didn't get it wrong, see for yourself. Clearly the officials made an error when measuring the speed.
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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:42 (Ref:3785157)   #11
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Except they didn't get it wrong, see for yourself. Clearly the officials made an error when measuring the speed.
Maybe when Pecky said 'they' he meant CAMS?
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Old 4 Dec 2017, 23:43 (Ref:3785158)   #12
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Except they didn't get it wrong, see for yourself. Clearly the officials made an error when measuring the speed.
we shall see, officials have their evidence, DJRTP have theirs. clearly there is some sort of mix up.

How do we know that the pics above match the data with it. They are from different sources
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 09:27 (Ref:3785215)   #13
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Since there never was a speeding infringement, the celebration can't have contributed to it!
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Except they didn't get it wrong, see for yourself. Clearly the officials made an error when measuring the speed.
Why is it you are so keen to blindly accept DJRTP saying there wasn't an infringment, yet won't accept Race Control saying there was an infringement?
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Old 5 Dec 2017, 10:39 (Ref:3785229)   #14
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Why is it you are so keen to blindly accept DJRTP saying there wasn't an infringment, yet won't accept Race Control saying there was an infringement?

In all modern sports, there is always a question of human element.
I know this as an AFl umpire, yes I missed some, made a to call to quickly ,
saw only half of the incident, but generally umpired the game in the spirit of things.
Like the NRL, the cowboys excepted they didnt play the best in one grand final, but how many tackles can you have.

If you know QLD, north bound from Bris there is a speed camera. It had a horrid history of picking speeding cars in the south bound lanes, but picture, cars in the northbound lanes.

Interesting court case over a period of time, the woman was never cleared of speeding, just the unit wasn't calibrated or the operator wasn't trained correctly. It cost a lot of dollars , no fine , but never cleared of supposed speeding.

If you hang out in Vic, there is a point to point (Supercars system) that catches ppl out . It uses the , distance x time system.
That is if u are doing the speed limit all is good, but if you hit it hard, then try to slow down,sad, you have exceeded the time, thefore you where speeding.

All DJRTP want to know, is this:

Supercars supply the unit in the cars. ( remeber Ambrose and some extra wires)

Supercars installed the system on the circuit

Supercars also have volunteers(CAMS Officials) , who have completed the course on RadarGun operation.

Is there a fault with the unit in the car, is there a fault with the readings or settings.

If you are a team owner in a controlled equipment series, and you got pinged, wouldn't you like to know which piece of equipment wasn't working correctly.

They bang on all the time about this , and the great Tim, said, we can tell by the telemetry what a car is doing ..

I myself don't have a side in this.
Do we go back to stop watches, men in white coats, or do we go forward and use electronic systems.

To me , I would go with modern equipment, sensors, light beams, point to point, take out the finger on the radar gun, making pit entry a tadd longer to slow down, unlike govt roads, where you do 100k's , but as soon as you exit, jump on the brakes to 60 ks or less

but thats my view
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Old 6 Dec 2017, 21:18 (Ref:3785534)   #15
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To me , I would go with modern equipment, sensors, light beams, point to point, take out the finger on the radar gun, making pit entry a tadd longer to slow down, unlike govt roads, where you do 100k's , but as soon as you exit, jump on the brakes to 60 ks or less
I agree.... NASCAR style full pit lane loop system to keep an eye on the cars across the whole lane. Why just monitor the start of the lane, do the whole thing. Whilst they're at it, impose the use across the whole weekend, every car/category running is subject to the system.

Whilst we're at it, get rid of these Judges of Fact that change from event to event. Assign a set of officials for the whole year for the category. There's too much at stake, sponsors, prize money, gambling and so on, to be messing around with volunteers in positions like this. Yes they all do a great job and these events wouldn't happen without them, but there's some positions that need full timers in them.
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