Ralt RT3 participation (and CF3 discussion)

hotracer · 16 Dec 2001, 11:06 (Ref:186432)

Why not allow Ralt RT3 to compete ? There are a number of these classic cars around. I have one and would and have to run in Monoposto with a vauxhall engine. I have a spiess engine and the car can be converted to flat bottom spec if needed. However lap times seem no different to middle ranking Classic f3 times in downforce mode. So why exempt the RT3 ?

Lola · 16 Dec 2001, 19:22 (Ref:186595)

You dont have to run with a vauxhall engine in mono. My mate runs one with an Rs2000 engine. I have a Reynard 883 with a vw Brabham. To keep it simple and use the same engine mounts/adaptor plates i have fitted a VW 2.0l 16v. Fits ok.
As for classic F3 not allowing RT3 to enter is sad. The series could do with a few extra cars. Make them carry ballast to equal things out.

B. Honnorat · 29 Dec 2001, 10:14 (Ref:190853)

It is possible to race in French F3Classic serie with a F3 2 liters Ralt RT3. The Trophy is open to F3 1600cc and 2000cc pre 1984 (1984 included) in original spécification, i.e mechanical injection,air restrictor etc.. but flat bottom !. We use Avon tyres.
2002 schedule is already disponible. Race at Dijon, Spa, Pau!!!!, Ledenon, Croix en Ternois, Le Vigeant, Nogaro.
Many différents chassis with Martini, Ralt, Ensign, Dallara, March, Tecno, Argo, Anson, Alpine, Duqueine, etc...
Engines: VW Brabham, Alfa Nova, Toy Nova

The Swede · 29 Jul 2010, 20:37 (Ref:2735440)

You can also race in Sweden, Denmark and Norway with historic F3 up to 1990 according original spec, Appendix K and flat bottom.
Usaually 5 races in each country.

Sweden: http://www.rhkswe.org/
Denmark: http://www.hms.dk/
Norway: http://www.historisk-racing.no/

Come an try it!

andrewc · 29 Jul 2010, 21:22 (Ref:2735473)

Mono Classic:

5.5.2 MONO CLASSIC 2000 a) Chassis complying with 5.5.1 a) of aluminium alloy and / or steel construction where the manufacturers designated model year is 1998 or earlier; or 1999 or earlier in the case of chassis built to comply with the Renault Sport Manual;
b) Chassis complying with 5.5.1 a) of carbon fibre composite or aluminium alloy construction originally complying, or derived from those originally complying, with FIA Formula 3 and identified by the manufacturer as for the model year 1992 or earlier.

And either an iron block, non VVT road derived engine or

MONO CLASSIC 2000: ENGINES OF MANUFACTURE AND MODEL AS USED IN FIA INTERNATIONAL FORMULA 3 DURING 1992 OR EARLIER HAVING A 25 MILLIMETER MAXIMUM DIAMETER AIR RESTRICTOR THROUGH WHICH ALL AIR SERVING THE INDUCTION IS PASSED.

delta · 30 Jul 2010, 16:58 (Ref:2735910)

Be patient Hot racer.There is a lot of talk going on and it could work out in your favour

Matthew Sturmer · 30 Jul 2010, 19:30 (Ref:2736000)

[I] hope not as it would render a lot of other cars obsolete and devalue alot of the existing field. As has been discussed extensivley elsewhere the bigger question is how to get more cars out regularly that comply with the existing regs not change the regs to attract new cars and lose the existing field due to obselesance and still be in exactly the same position as now...........

delta · 31 Jul 2010, 16:06 (Ref:2736482)

How come letting in later cars works so well for our French friends Mathew.Don't forget I'm one of those who would suffer letting in later cars but something needs to be done ,and sooner than later.

Rudernst · 8 Aug 2010, 20:19 (Ref:2741552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta

How come letting in later cars works so well for our French friends Mathew.Don't forget I'm one of those who would suffer letting in later cars but something needs to be done ,and sooner than later.

I agree that something needs to be done.
At the moment the CF3 grids are sometimes severely undersubscribed.
We need to understand that as a result our CF3 race does not pay its way towards its slot of tracktime.
Currently the other races with full grids are subsidising CF3 racing.
This wont go on forever, You can be sure of that.
Either CF3 grids become financially viable or another type of car will eventually take up the slot.
I have seen that happen in other series.

Re Monaco: Originally I did think that this would give up CF3 a big boost.
There are some drivers that just bought cars to get into Monaco, did that event and now - mission accomplished - mothball the car.

I do very much like CF3 and my Ralt.
I would like to see the series flourish.
We need to get more cars out whatever that takes.

My preference is to move the cut off date.
If the 1600 cc drive succeeds instead, fine by me.

I did write this mail to Grahame White of the HSCC:

quote:

Dear Graeme,

coming back to the chat that we had at Silverstone last weekend:

It is my personal opinion that Classic F3 should at least consider to move its cut off date forward to 1984. This would bring it in line with what is happening in Monaco and in the French Championship.

Naturally the later cars should go into a seperate class.

It also would have the added advantage to generate more potential F3 entries. At the moment CF3 invites FF2000s and even watercooled FVs to boost grids.

My feeling is that I would rather race later F3s than cars from other Formulae. I would suspect that the spectators would agree.

I think that CF3 has the potential to be a spectacular event but it just lacks a certain depth at the moment.

I wish to make clear that I dont want to kick out the FF2000s which have supported CF3s when it needed it, just to get more F3s in.

There is some feeling within CF3 that the HSCC has a certain age scope and would not be happy about moving the cut off date to include younger cars. You told me that HSCC would not have a problem with the later cars.

In all fairness one would have to see how entries develop in 2010 and if the boost of racing at Monaco alone fills up the grids. Championship regulations cant be changed for 2010 anyway.
The situation should be assessed after this season.

I have to make clear that the above is my personal opinion alone and no way an official initiative on behalf of CF3.
I would also suspect that there will be a fraction of CF3 that would want to retain the purity of its roots as it developed out of Toyota F3, but time moves on.
I do believe in the value of public debate to see which point of view is the best or at the least the most popular.

Kind Regards
Rudolf Ernst

unquote

I did get a positive reply from the HSCC.

Rudolf

grantp · 31 Jul 2010, 23:30 (Ref:2736798)

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta

Be patient Hot racer.There is a lot of talk going on and it could work out in your favour

The subject has waited nearly 9 years already Iain!

Is there a thread running to keep track of old post re-incarnations?

Edit: Having discovered this post and followed the link it occurred to me that my previous comments, written in all innocence and ignorance of later news, might have seemed inappropriate rather than humorous as intended. So I binned them, leaving just the part that relates to the re-appearance of old posts.

Matthew Sturmer · 2 Aug 2010, 18:48 (Ref:2738352)

My concern is that to make any real difference to numbers we would also have to let in the VW engine as well as the RT3. From what I understand this package is a step forward from where we are now.

jamesl · 2 Aug 2010, 19:46 (Ref:2738375)

Allowing in 8 valve VW motors would increase engine availability and reduce costs. What year was the VW engine first used in F3?

The Swede · 2 Aug 2010, 19:47 (Ref:2738377)

Matthew: What is so special about VW engines and RT3?

ralt-racer · 3 Aug 2010, 12:04 (Ref:2738712)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Sturmer

My concern is that to make any real difference to numbers we would also have to let in the VW engine as well as the RT3. From what I understand this package is a step forward from where we are now.

I agree with you Matthew I used to run the 8v vw in ARP and a good one will have 20bhp more that a toyota. Another point is the reliability of the vw they are a nusance. We ran them for 4 years and got through 4 engines in that time not including the end of year rebuilds. I beleve the problem with them is that they are tuned to the absoloute maximum the engine is capable of. Scince I have been running the toyota we have only had one major problem which was down to old components.

As for the Ralt I think they are basically a better design than the Marches Argos etc and a good amount of it is down to the aero but not all of it. Even with flat bottom I think they could be develpoed to be a better car.

Benn

davyboy · 4 Aug 2010, 14:06 (Ref:2739392)

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta

Be patient Hot racer.There is a lot of talk going on and it could work out in your favour

Very sadly Alan aka hotracer is no longer with us. Please see the link below.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102026

bidochon · 4 Aug 2010, 22:07 (Ref:2739583)

Hi Benn
cheer for Brands , what a shame i cannot speak with you , when i'm coming with my favourite interpreter : my daughter , you was busy before the race , i need later only two sidepods and the screen , in this time i rebuilt the alloy monocoque and it's really a great job

for the French regulation :
5.2 - Annulation de l’effet de sol pour les voitures �* partir des modèles 1981 inclus
no ground effect from 81 to 84 : flat bottom

Pour les voitures pré-1980 le fond d’origine est admis. Néanmoins les jupes sont interdites même si en période elles existaient.
before 1981 original bottom is authorized but without skirt so ok for your 803
Benn ..... welcome in France !

Monza races 1 and 2 for information
58 COPPA INTEREUROPA STORICA
TROPHEE F3 CLASSIC
CLASSIFICA RACE 1
POS No CONDUTTORE NAZ TEAM AUTO GR CL G TEMPO DISTACCO VEL GIROVELOCE
1 16CHATEAUX M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 28'41.355 169.614 Km/h 222.2 2'02.211 7
2 80LEONE V. I RALT RT3 VW A 14 28'48.851 7.496 226.8 2'02.503 8
3 90NEE R. FRA CHEVRON B 34 A 14 28'57.802 16.447 222.6 2'03.113 6
4 95KLEIN M. LUX CHEVRON B34 A 14 29'00.854 19.499 225.9 2'03.455 9
5 26ANDOUARD G. F DALLARA 381 A 14 29'16.780 35.425 227.8 2'04.155 12
6 48VALLERYMASSON L F MARTINI MK 2 A 14 29'20.655 39.300 224.5 2'04.169 9
7 21CHEMINOT L. F MARTNI MK 31 A 14 29'38.188 56.833 219.5 2'05.228 12
8 73ARBEIT M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 29'39.615 58.260 224.5 2'05.668 14
9 20DUTHE A.G. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.080 1'18.725 225.9 2'06.143 14
10 52NOTARI F. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.778 1'19.423 217.3 2'06.444 13
11 41DELPLANQUE N. F MARCH 793 TO A 14 30'07.060 1'25.705 223.6 2'06.689 11
12 57SALA M. I SALA SPECIAL A 14 30'07.506 1'26.151 216.0 2'07.010 14
13 4EYNARD MACHET J F RALT RT3 TOY A 14 30'07.947 1'26.592 224.0 2'06.386 13
14 3LACOUR B. F MARCH 793 TO A 14 30'24.417 1'43.062 215.5 2'08.047 9
15 110CASTIGLIONI A. I RALT RT3 ALF A 14 30'39.134 1'57.779 223.6 2'08.920 5
16 28LEGUAY C. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'24.863 1 GIRO211.7 2'12.769 12
17 49BROSSEAU L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'35.947 1 GIRO201.4 2'13.787 10
18 38GERAUD J.L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'57.679 1 GIRO212.1 2'14.260 11
19 43RIMBERT G. B TECNO FORD A2 13 29'59.562 1 GIRO214.2 2'14.739 12
20 39VALLERYMASSON H F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 30'00.262 1 GIRO210.5 2'15.185 10
21 22LEMASSON P. F CHEVRON B34 A 10 21'42.527 4 GIRI 222.6 2'07.454 6
NONCLASSIFICATI
RIT 24LOGUT C. F MARTINI MK30 B 203.0
NC 25LAMMELIN J.P. F RALT RT3 ALF A 5 10'31.105 9 GIRI 226.4 2'04.708 4
NC 141TROMANS G. MC MARTINI MK 3 A 2 4'24.802 12 GIRI 219.0 2'08.835 2
NC 19CLOUZEAU S. F MARTINI MK 4 A 2 4'25.091 12 GIRI 219.9 2'09.626 2
NC 9DA-ROCHA F. F MARCH 793 TO A 2 5'10.919 12 GIRI 217.7
NC 121BENEDINI E. I RALT RT3 ALF A 1 2'13.408 13 GIRI
NP 10HONNORAT B. F RALT RT 3 VW A
NP 100RIPAMONTI A. I LOTUS 69 FOR A2
NP 45GRANDIN M. F CHEVRON B38 A
NP 96DEL CONTE C.M. I ENSIGN LNF3 A2 180.0
NP 36BIANCHI G. I ANSON ALFA A
GIRO VELOCE 7 CHATEAUX Matthieu 2'02.211 170.645Km/h
Esposta alle ore:
IL DIRETTORE DI GARA: Daniele Galbiati
IL D.S. DI CRONOMETRAGGIO: Monza Timing - Nastasi E.

58 COPPA INTEREUROPA STORICA
TROPHEE F3 CLASSIC
CLASSIFICA RACE 2
POS No CONDUTTORE NAZ TEAM AUTO GR CL G TEMPO DISTACCO VEL GIROVELOCE
1 16CHATEAUX M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 28'37.515 169.993 Km/h 223.1 2'01.512 9
2 80LEONE V. I RALT RT3 VW A 14 28'42.814 5.299 223.6 2'01.946 10
3 95KLEIN M. LUX CHEVRON B34 A 14 28'59.470 21.955 224.5 2'03.905 11
4 90NEE R. FRA CHEVRON B 34 A 14 29'03.845 26.330 223.6 2'04.020 12
5 21CHEMINOT L. F MARTNI MK 31 A 14 29'12.230 34.715 220.8 2'04.297 13
6 26ANDOUARD G. F DALLARA 381 A 14 29'13.800 36.285 226.4 2'04.691 14
7 25LAMMELIN J.P. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 29'28.934 51.419 225.0 2'05.806 9
8 48VALLERYMASSON L F MARTINI MK 2 A 14 29'29.352 51.837 223.1 2'05.859 8
9 141TROMANS G. MC MARTINI MK 3 A 14 29'53.246 1'15.731 218.1 2'06.972 11
10 20DUTHE A.G. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.718 1'23.203 222.6 2'07.586 9
11 110CASTIGLIONI A. I RALT RT3 ALF A 14 30'06.889 1'29.374 225.0 2'07.899 7
12 4EYNARD MACHET J F RALT RT3 TOY A 14 30'07.214 1'29.699 220.4 2'07.840 10
13 57SALA M. I SALA SPECIAL A 14 30'13.868 1'36.353 219.0 2'07.931 7
14 41DELPLANQUE N. F MARCH 793 TO A 13 28'03.526 1 GIRO223.1 2'08.014 7
15 28LEGUAY C. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'16.344 1 GIRO214.7 2'13.535 13
16 43RIMBERT G. B TECNO FORD A2 13 29'16.775 1 GIRO215.1 2'12.557 11
17 49BROSSEAU L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'29.131 1 GIRO203.7 2'13.912 10
18 38GERAUD J.L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 30'08.993 1 GIRO211.7 2'16.339 7
19 39VALLERYMASSON H F MARTINI MK 3 B 11 25'17.753 3 GIRI 210.1 2'16.632 6
20 73ARBEIT M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 7 14'38.669 7 GIRI 224.5 2'05.147 7
NONCLASSIFICATI
NC 52NOTARI F. F RALT RT3 VW A 4 9'13.898 10 GIRI 216.0 2'09.178 3
NC 3LACOUR B. F MARCH 793 TO A 3 6'59.591 11 GIRI 211.7 2'15.420 2
NC 36BIANCHI G. I ANSON ALFA A 3 7'26.367 11 GIRI 213.4 2'16.442 2
NC 121BENEDINI E. I RALT RT3 ALF A 3 8'09.135 11 GIRI 227.3 2'07.278 2
NP 22LEMASSON P. F CHEVRON B34 A
NP 9DA-ROCHA F. F MARCH 793 TO A
NP 19CLOUZEAU S. F MARTINI MK 4 A
NP 24LOGUT C. F MARTINI MK30 B
NP 45GRANDIN M. F CHEVRON B38 A
NP 100RIPAMONTI A. I LOTUS 69 FOR A2
NP 96DEL CONTE C.M. I ENSIGN LNF3 A2
NP 10HONNORAT B. F RALT RT 3 VW A
GIRO VELOCE 9 CHATEAUX Matthieu 2'01.512 171.627Km/h

good night
Alain

ralt-racer · 5 Aug 2010, 11:42 (Ref:2739772)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bidochon

Hi Benn
cheer for Brands , what a shame i cannot speak with you , when i'm coming with my favourite interpreter : my daughter , you was busy before the race , i need later only two sidepods and the screen , in this time i rebuilt the alloy monocoque and it's really a great job

for the French regulation :
5.2 - Annulation de l’effet de sol pour les voitures �* partir des modèles 1981 inclus
no ground effect from 81 to 84 : flat bottom

Pour les voitures pré-1980 le fond d’origine est admis. Néanmoins les jupes sont interdites même si en période elles existaient.
before 1981 original bottom is authorized but without skirt so ok for your 803
Benn ..... welcome in France !

Monza races 1 and 2 for information
58 COPPA INTEREUROPA STORICA
TROPHEE F3 CLASSIC
CLASSIFICA RACE 1
POS No CONDUTTORE NAZ TEAM AUTO GR CL G TEMPO DISTACCO VEL GIROVELOCE
1 16CHATEAUX M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 28'41.355 169.614 Km/h 222.2 2'02.211 7
2 80LEONE V. I RALT RT3 VW A 14 28'48.851 7.496 226.8 2'02.503 8
3 90NEE R. FRA CHEVRON B 34 A 14 28'57.802 16.447 222.6 2'03.113 6
4 95KLEIN M. LUX CHEVRON B34 A 14 29'00.854 19.499 225.9 2'03.455 9
5 26ANDOUARD G. F DALLARA 381 A 14 29'16.780 35.425 227.8 2'04.155 12
6 48VALLERYMASSON L F MARTINI MK 2 A 14 29'20.655 39.300 224.5 2'04.169 9
7 21CHEMINOT L. F MARTNI MK 31 A 14 29'38.188 56.833 219.5 2'05.228 12
8 73ARBEIT M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 29'39.615 58.260 224.5 2'05.668 14
9 20DUTHE A.G. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.080 1'18.725 225.9 2'06.143 14
10 52NOTARI F. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.778 1'19.423 217.3 2'06.444 13
11 41DELPLANQUE N. F MARCH 793 TO A 14 30'07.060 1'25.705 223.6 2'06.689 11
12 57SALA M. I SALA SPECIAL A 14 30'07.506 1'26.151 216.0 2'07.010 14
13 4EYNARD MACHET J F RALT RT3 TOY A 14 30'07.947 1'26.592 224.0 2'06.386 13
14 3LACOUR B. F MARCH 793 TO A 14 30'24.417 1'43.062 215.5 2'08.047 9
15 110CASTIGLIONI A. I RALT RT3 ALF A 14 30'39.134 1'57.779 223.6 2'08.920 5
16 28LEGUAY C. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'24.863 1 GIRO211.7 2'12.769 12
17 49BROSSEAU L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'35.947 1 GIRO201.4 2'13.787 10
18 38GERAUD J.L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'57.679 1 GIRO212.1 2'14.260 11
19 43RIMBERT G. B TECNO FORD A2 13 29'59.562 1 GIRO214.2 2'14.739 12
20 39VALLERYMASSON H F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 30'00.262 1 GIRO210.5 2'15.185 10
21 22LEMASSON P. F CHEVRON B34 A 10 21'42.527 4 GIRI 222.6 2'07.454 6
NONCLASSIFICATI
RIT 24LOGUT C. F MARTINI MK30 B 203.0
NC 25LAMMELIN J.P. F RALT RT3 ALF A 5 10'31.105 9 GIRI 226.4 2'04.708 4
NC 141TROMANS G. MC MARTINI MK 3 A 2 4'24.802 12 GIRI 219.0 2'08.835 2
NC 19CLOUZEAU S. F MARTINI MK 4 A 2 4'25.091 12 GIRI 219.9 2'09.626 2
NC 9DA-ROCHA F. F MARCH 793 TO A 2 5'10.919 12 GIRI 217.7
NC 121BENEDINI E. I RALT RT3 ALF A 1 2'13.408 13 GIRI
NP 10HONNORAT B. F RALT RT 3 VW A
NP 100RIPAMONTI A. I LOTUS 69 FOR A2
NP 45GRANDIN M. F CHEVRON B38 A
NP 96DEL CONTE C.M. I ENSIGN LNF3 A2 180.0
NP 36BIANCHI G. I ANSON ALFA A
GIRO VELOCE 7 CHATEAUX Matthieu 2'02.211 170.645Km/h
Esposta alle ore:
IL DIRETTORE DI GARA: Daniele Galbiati
IL D.S. DI CRONOMETRAGGIO: Monza Timing - Nastasi E.

58 COPPA INTEREUROPA STORICA
TROPHEE F3 CLASSIC
CLASSIFICA RACE 2
POS No CONDUTTORE NAZ TEAM AUTO GR CL G TEMPO DISTACCO VEL GIROVELOCE
1 16CHATEAUX M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 28'37.515 169.993 Km/h 223.1 2'01.512 9
2 80LEONE V. I RALT RT3 VW A 14 28'42.814 5.299 223.6 2'01.946 10
3 95KLEIN M. LUX CHEVRON B34 A 14 28'59.470 21.955 224.5 2'03.905 11
4 90NEE R. FRA CHEVRON B 34 A 14 29'03.845 26.330 223.6 2'04.020 12
5 21CHEMINOT L. F MARTNI MK 31 A 14 29'12.230 34.715 220.8 2'04.297 13
6 26ANDOUARD G. F DALLARA 381 A 14 29'13.800 36.285 226.4 2'04.691 14
7 25LAMMELIN J.P. F RALT RT3 ALF A 14 29'28.934 51.419 225.0 2'05.806 9
8 48VALLERYMASSON L F MARTINI MK 2 A 14 29'29.352 51.837 223.1 2'05.859 8
9 141TROMANS G. MC MARTINI MK 3 A 14 29'53.246 1'15.731 218.1 2'06.972 11
10 20DUTHE A.G. F RALT RT3 VW A 14 30'00.718 1'23.203 222.6 2'07.586 9
11 110CASTIGLIONI A. I RALT RT3 ALF A 14 30'06.889 1'29.374 225.0 2'07.899 7
12 4EYNARD MACHET J F RALT RT3 TOY A 14 30'07.214 1'29.699 220.4 2'07.840 10
13 57SALA M. I SALA SPECIAL A 14 30'13.868 1'36.353 219.0 2'07.931 7
14 41DELPLANQUE N. F MARCH 793 TO A 13 28'03.526 1 GIRO223.1 2'08.014 7
15 28LEGUAY C. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'16.344 1 GIRO214.7 2'13.535 13
16 43RIMBERT G. B TECNO FORD A2 13 29'16.775 1 GIRO215.1 2'12.557 11
17 49BROSSEAU L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 29'29.131 1 GIRO203.7 2'13.912 10
18 38GERAUD J.L. F MARTINI MK 3 B 13 30'08.993 1 GIRO211.7 2'16.339 7
19 39VALLERYMASSON H F MARTINI MK 3 B 11 25'17.753 3 GIRI 210.1 2'16.632 6
20 73ARBEIT M. F RALT RT3 ALF A 7 14'38.669 7 GIRI 224.5 2'05.147 7
NONCLASSIFICATI
NC 52NOTARI F. F RALT RT3 VW A 4 9'13.898 10 GIRI 216.0 2'09.178 3
NC 3LACOUR B. F MARCH 793 TO A 3 6'59.591 11 GIRI 211.7 2'15.420 2
NC 36BIANCHI G. I ANSON ALFA A 3 7'26.367 11 GIRI 213.4 2'16.442 2
NC 121BENEDINI E. I RALT RT3 ALF A 3 8'09.135 11 GIRI 227.3 2'07.278 2
NP 22LEMASSON P. F CHEVRON B34 A
NP 9DA-ROCHA F. F MARCH 793 TO A
NP 19CLOUZEAU S. F MARTINI MK 4 A
NP 24LOGUT C. F MARTINI MK30 B
NP 45GRANDIN M. F CHEVRON B38 A
NP 100RIPAMONTI A. I LOTUS 69 FOR A2
NP 96DEL CONTE C.M. I ENSIGN LNF3 A2
NP 10HONNORAT B. F RALT RT 3 VW A
GIRO VELOCE 9 CHATEAUX Matthieu 2'01.512 171.627Km/h

good night
Alain

Hey Alain thats great news I may come over next year and have a race or two with you guys.

Sorry to miss you later on but glad to hear your tub is coming along let me know when you want the body pannels and I will get the made for you.

Sad news about Hot racer (Alan Everett) I knew him a little from ARP a really nice bloke who I am sure will be missed

Cheers Benn

Alan Morgan · 31 Jul 2010, 18:37 (Ref:2736591)

I don't think that a rocker-suspended RT3 with a flat bottom kit would be inherently qiucker than a wide-nosed car like a 793 or an Argo. I worked in the design office at Ralt (briefly) whilst the RT3 was being designed. Ron Tauranac had very clear ideas of what was needed to make ground effect work, and the whole car was optimised to ensure the sidepods worked properly. With a flat bottom, all that optimisation counts for nothing.

I'll email Ron to see if he agrees.

Alan Morgan · 3 Aug 2010, 16:36 (Ref:2738852)

I don't think the HSCC are planning a stand-alone race yet. They're hoping for 10-20 1600 cars to appear eventually alongside the 2 Litre cars. I really hope they succeed, 1600 F3 cars are amongst the prettiest wings and slicks cars out there. They're inviting anyone to bring their 1600 car to Brands on 11th September (regardless of completeness/condition) in return for free admission.

Despite the wings, they didn't have a huge amount of downforce...

ralt-racer · 3 Aug 2010, 17:04 (Ref:2738864)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

I don't think the HSCC are planning a stand-alone race yet. They're hoping for 10-20 1600 cars to appear eventually alongside the 2 Litre cars. I really hope they succeed, 1600 F3 cars are amongst the prettiest wings and slicks cars out there. They're inviting anyone to bring their 1600 car to Brands on 11th September (regardless of completeness/condition) in return for free admission.

Despite the wings, they didn't have a huge amount of downforce...

Great Pic alan Cadwell I assume??

It would be interesting to hear what Ron thinks.

In ARP they insited the RT3 had to be flat bottomed as they were too fast for the 90's era cars..

I hope they can get more 1600 f3's out as well as 2l F3s

Benn

Alan Morgan · 3 Aug 2010, 18:07 (Ref:2738903)

Correct - that's Cadwell. Ron's reply didn't really give a definite answer. He says the VW engine was a lot lighter than the Toyota, with a lower cg, so it was hard to get a definite idea of their relative performance power-wise as the RT3 was designed for the VW, and was overweight with the Toyota.

In terms of chassis performance, it's probably easiest to quote what he said in his email (I think he's basically saying that a flat-bottomed RT3 is similar chassis-wise to the RT1)

Quote:

The original RT1 rear suspension had the lower wishbone front link feeding its load into the outer Tub skin, about 1978 I moved this link inboard so that the wishbone pivot line was parallel to the car centerline instead of being angled outwards. The angled outward line increased the roll couple when cornering, when this line was moved in the rear anti roll bar was reduced in strength thereby putting the power down better. All RT3 cars had the later suspension geometry. When converting a ground effect RT3 to flat bottom you would need to reduce the spring rate.

This is all academic though, because the HSCC will not be admitting the RT3 in the forseeable future...

jamesl · 3 Aug 2010, 18:55 (Ref:2738931)

After doing some googling, I have read on another forum that the 8 valve VW Spiess engine was first used in German F3 in 1979 ... not sure if this is 100% accurate, but if it were true, would this make the VW engine eligible for CF3?

Simon Hadfield · 5 Aug 2010, 12:02 (Ref:2739779)

So all we really need are a couple of 1980 RT1s! What I have noticed is that the French have a fairly laid back attitude to wings, splitters and general preparation, bearing in mind that I actually prepared some of the types of cars racing in the French series (and Tony Morris who works here with us was senior mechanic on Claudio Langes' Anson - he says that is all but unrecognisable today) and I really can't recall the spec that the owners put forward today! Our current CF3 is fine, yes we need more cars on the grid but they will come - be it 1600 or 2 litre - have faith!

Simon Hadfield · 5 Aug 2010, 16:35 (Ref:2739917)

Yeah, I meant RT3s, honest!

bidochon · 5 Aug 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2740043)

let me know when you want the body pannels and I will get the made for you.

thank you Benn
Alain

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