[Team] McLaren - can they compete?

[ApexTurtle]

Or a nice payout. Contracts are contracts.

[wnut]

Freddie Allen out of Indy because McLaren unprepared!

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ms/3670736002/

Who would have thunk.

McLaren disprepared it's unpossible! (Joke Jim)

[Richard C]

Tried to win Indy on the cheap and faceplanted.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm, was that the real reason? Will be interesting to find out. I'm somewhat sad because of all the racers past and present that deserve to equal Graham Hill's title it's him and Senna. What it does demonstrate is even with the reliability and technology in use today the triple is still extremely difficult to achieve.

[S griffin]

Of course JPM only needs to win LM to do it

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed but I don't put him in the same category as the others I mentioned.

[S griffin]

I’ll agree to disagree on that one. He’s a proper racer who’s not afraid to give it a go. As well as the fact he speaks his mind

[Peter Mallett]

Don't get me started on JPM, I'll simply say that I was right.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Don't get me started on JPM, I'll simply say that I was right.

Im with you on JPM, Peter.

[Peter Mallett]

Thanks EB, the cheque is in the post.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Hmm, was that the real reason? Will be interesting to find out. I'm somewhat sad because of all the racers past and present that deserve to equal Graham Hill's title it's him and Senna. What it does demonstrate is even with the reliability and technology in use today the triple is still extremely difficult to achieve.

They did no races before hand and minimal testing. They don’t understand the car as well as everyone else who has been running it.

They over estimated their own abilities and under estimated the competition. It’s a very McLaren mess to be in.

[Peter Mallett]

I don't doubt you are correct but it would be good to get some corroboration. I thought they'd been planning this for some time.

[Akrapovic]

They had been - but I believe they only did a single test with the car on an oval. Alonso crashed that car during the week and they reverted to the backup, which I think was from another team? (Someone with more knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong). That car was primarily a road course car.

During the final day it was pretty clear that McLaren were miles off on the setup. The car was dragging on the ground and bottoming - something that's rare at Indy. I think someone mentioned they even bought a shock/damper package from Andretti to try and cure their problems but they were unsuccessful. Again, someone with more knowledge will surely let us know.

McLaren over-estimated their ability again. They did minimal work with the car compared to every other team. If Alonso wants to win Indy, he should drop McLaren and go full time Indy Racing with a top team.

[Peter Mallett]

Your last point is interesting. Who is hurting whom? Alonso hurting McLaren or vice a versa?

BTW thanks for clarifying.

[bjohnsonsmith]

What I don't understand, is why Zak Brown thought hooking up with Carlin was a good idea. Their experience is minimal and that's been born out by the dismal qualifying results, with only one car on the grid.

Why did they bother to test at TMS? TMS and IMS are completely different tracks. Someone really didn't think this one through.

It would behoove Zak Brown, to start making overtures to some of the top teams.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Your last point is interesting. Who is hurting whom? Alonso hurting McLaren or vice a versa?

BTW thanks for clarifying.

I would say that McLaren is hurting Alonso. Since he left, they have made tiny bits of progress up the grid, but had to change engine supplier to do it. Meanwhile, Alonso won Le Mans. Whilst it's easy to argue that he had an easy win due to the lack of competition, his stint during the night was by far the most impressive in the race of any driver. He was absolutely top of his game. I believe he's talking about going to the Dakar with Toyota as well.

If he wants the triple, his best shot is to go speak to someone like Roger Penske.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

They had been - but I believe they only did a single test with the car on an oval. Alonso crashed that car during the week and they reverted to the backup, which I think was from another team? (Someone with more knowledge will correct me if I'm wrong). That car was primarily a road course car.

The oval car (the one he crashed) was the McLaren car. The backup car (the one he had to use for qualifying) was a road course car from Carlin.


If you look at Carlin's results: only Kimball in, their 2 other own cars out, and Alonso out as well, they weren't prepared either.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If he wants the triple, his best shot is to go speak to someone like Roger Penske.

If he wants the triple, I think he best runs a full or at least partial race.


I'm not sure if Penske is interested in adding a one-off car for someone else than Helio. He didn't want to do it for JPM either (who is still running for his team in IMSA)

Apart from Penske, only Andretti seems like a good option.
Ganassi is too much of a 1-man team with (good) support acts.

If Alonso's really only interested in Indy, then maybe Carpenter?


--

EDIT: There's not much left of the McLaren's Indycar team anyway: Fernley has just left.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by gert

The oval car (the one he crashed) was the McLaren car. The backup car (the one he had to use for qualifying) was a road course car from Carlin.


If you look at Carlin's results: only Kimball in, their 2 other own cars out, and Alonso out as well, they weren't prepared either.




If he wants the triple, I think he best runs a full or at least partial race.


I'm not sure if Penske is interested in adding a one-off car for someone else than Helio. He didn't want to do it for JPM either (who is still running for his team in IMSA)

Apart from Penske, only Andretti seems like a good option.
Ganassi is too much of a 1-man team with (good) support acts.

If Alonso's really only interested in Indy, then maybe Carpenter?


--

EDIT: There's not much left of the McLaren's Indycar team anyway: Fernley has just left.

I'd be going to Penske and asking to run a full season to be honest. If he's serious about the triple, he needs to commit to Indy full time. McLaren aren't going to cut it.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd be going to Penske and asking to run a full season to be honest. If he's serious about the triple, he needs to commit to Indy full time. McLaren aren't going to cut it.

Agreed, that's what I would do too: Penske, full season.

Question is: do they want him, and do they have room - or are they willing to make room for him?

[ApexTurtle]

I see no reason to run a full season. The 500 is not even close to comparable to the rest of the races. He managed to qualify easily in 2017 and would have had a good shot at winning if his engine hadn't died. People forget things so easy these days, that was only two years ago!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

I see no reason to run a full season. The 500 is not even close to comparable to the rest of the races. He managed to qualify easily in 2017 and would have had a good shot at winning if his engine hadn't died. People forget things so easy these days, that was only two years ago!

People haven't forgotten it at all. But that was a different aero package and a strong team who knew what they were doing.

If McLaren wants to win Indy, they won't do it on a part-time schedule. If Alonso wants to win Indy, he'll do better to gain more experience. Everyone else is learning, whilst he's not.

[gert]

Another benefit is that on a full-time schedule you have a dedicated crew working on your car who you get to know, who get to know you and what you like/don't like on your car.
Also, the crew is used to working together and not just a bunch of part-time crew members from other programmes your team is running.

You don't have any of those advantages if you're running an additional Indy-only car.


EDIT: And if it's not only the crew as in: people working on your car, but also: the one calling the strategy, the spotter(s), ...
I think it would be beneficial to have a group of people you actually work with, instead of a bunch of on-off guys.

[Richard C]

We are way off topic, but hey, it's a slow F1 news day!

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Your last point is interesting. Who is hurting whom? Alonso hurting McLaren or vice a versa?

Clearly Alonso is the problem here. Given we all agree that his timing and partner/team selection is horrible. That if Alonso shows interest in racing for you... you should run screaming for the hills! His bad mojo will curse you!

Originally Posted by ApexTurtle

I see no reason to run a full season. The 500 is not even close to comparable to the rest of the races. He managed to qualify easily in 2017 and would have had a good shot at winning if his engine hadn't died. People forget things so easy these days, that was only two years ago!

Not sure if you are saying the above tongue in cheek or not. But assuming you are playing it straight...

He needs to run with a team that knows what they are doing. Assembling a team for a single race (no matter how well intentioned or even if you get qualified people)... you are giving something up to those that do it on a regular schedule as a "team".

While Alonso did well in his maiden attempt, he had a well oiled machine guiding him along (which he didn't this time). He also was somewhat lucky. While his natural talent is undisputed, and he could be lucky in the future with one off races, running a full season lets him jell with a team, get more experience on oval tracks while racing the other full time drivers who will be his real competition at Indy. (I posted before I read gert's comment above, but he captured this part well)

I think he is currently holding off on a full time Indy drive until he can figure if he can inject himself back into F1. I guess he is watching McLaren's 2019 progress closely.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why did they bother to test at TMS? TMS and IMS are completely different tracks. Someone really didn't think this one through.

I suspect it was less about an optimal testing environment for Alonso as it was a test run for the team to work together.

Richard

[ApexTurtle]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

People haven't forgotten it at all. But that was a different aero package and a strong team who knew what they were doing.

Indeed, but my question is what does that have to do with him doing a full season? He just needs a better team.


And Indycar needs a better aero package but that's besides the point

[ApexTurtle]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

While Alonso did well in his maiden attempt, he had a well oiled machine guiding him along (which he didn't this time). He also was somewhat lucky.

In what world is your engine blowing up while running in the lead group called luck? People are being way too dramatic about this in my view.