Future Grands Prix?

[Purist]

Well, Chilibowl, it is a pseudo-street circuit, kind of like Singapore, though maybe more akin to Baku or Sochi. So yeah, I'm not surprised the track is rather flat. However, the racing surface itself doesn't seem to be unduly narrow.

Yes, it's a familiar pattern in a number of places, and I think the setups for some of the "straights" are going to hose up overtaking significantly. It seems to be a warning sign the more talk there is about how a track is supposed to be "challenging" for drivers.

SBF, speaking of Turn 1 at Oschersleben:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdCDkfEKkUI

F333SP, the third sector has some sweepers, but most of the rest doesn't look to be that quick in terms of the corners themselves. Also, for instance, I don't really see the point of that extra esse at the exit of the first roundabout; it seems like a great way to spread the cars out more, and hence mess up overtaking at the end of the following stretch, into the second roundabout.

Here's a straight YouTube link to the video, for anyone whose browser doesn't seem to like the motorsport site as much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPtbo5UIZFA

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Purist

SBF, speaking of Turn 1 at Oschersleben:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdCDkfEKkUI

Ah yes, the dulcet tones of my fellow Scot, who I've had the pleasure to meet a couple of times John Cleland. One of his most famous quotes, and that race was indeed one of several that immediately spring to mind about that type of corner and especially as a first corner, which prompted my comment.

[ApexTurtle]

Sometimes I think modern ciruits simply have to have a first corner that's explicitly made to induce spectacular crashes at the start. Because there has to be some excitement, right?

[S griffin]

Cleland certainly doesn’t mince his words there, but then he never does. Even the first corner at Macau is easy compared to that

[wnut]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Cleland certainly doesn’t mince his words there, but then he never does. Even the first corner at Macau is easy compared to that

Mr. Cleland is a refreshing change in modern life!

[crmalcolm]

Miami's plans are now apparently focused on the area surrounding their NFL stadium.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...adium/4375219/

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by wnut

Mr. Cleland is a refreshing change in modern life!

No surprise he was one of my favourite BTCC drivers growing up

[bjohnsonsmith]

Apparently the Governor of Rio de Janeiro would like to move the Brazilian GP from Interlagos, to a military base in Deodora, that hosted some Olympic events.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/142986

[S griffin]

That article points out the irony that the old Rio Circuit was demolished to make way for the olympic park. Still would be good if Rio had a circuit again

[wolfhound]

Zandvoort is to replace Barcelona for the 2020 GP season.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/143079

Good to see a Dutch GP back again I hope the track in its current form can live up to what we enjoyed in the past, especially those passing moves into Tarzan.

[Sodemo]

I'll wear a black armband for the day the diggers move in and destroy Zandvoort then...

[Marcel ten Caat]

Apparently it can be done with just three changes to the track.

1. Shortcut between Gerlach and Hunserug, which means they won't go through Hugenholtz.
2. Addition of a chicane inside Kumho (kinda like Chicane RACC at Barcelona)
3. Asphalt all the way to the barriers at Arie Luyendijk corner, replacing the grass between asphalt and barrier.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Zandvoort is to replace Barcelona for the 2020 GP season.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/143079

Good to see a Dutch GP back again I hope the track in its current form can live up to what we enjoyed in the past, especially those passing moves into Tarzan.

Why has Barcelona fallen off the calendar, is it the cost of the sanctioning fee?

[Peter Mallett]

The article says:

If, as expected, Barcelona drops off the 2020 calendar,

So Barcelona hasn't gone yet.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The article says:

So Barcelona hasn't gone yet.

If it does go, as expected, why? The cost of the sanctioning fee?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why has Barcelona fallen off the calendar, is it the cost of the sanctioning fee?

It's because the voters object to the autonomous regional government of Catalunya subsidising the sanctioning fee - also the high cost. Spain is not yet out of the financial mire which started in 2007/8, and unemployment amongst the under 25s is still around the 50% mark in many parts of Spain.

And Catalunya, of which Barcelona is the capital, has enough problems of it's own with it's fight for independence from the rest of Spain. Plus there will be no Alonso this year, and possibly, or probably, not in 2020 and later.

[S griffin]

Well I think they are doing at the wrong time. They need Barcelona at this time, it will help the economy

Of course the political situation doesn’t help, but then when does it ever. It should stay on the calendar. And I don’t think Fernando has that much of an influence

[skycafe]

Well, Alonso is a National Hero for them...but I guess you could say what has he done lately?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It's because the voters object to the autonomous regional government of Catalunya subsidising the sanctioning fee - also the high cost. Spain is not yet out of the financial mire which started in 2007/8, and unemployment amongst the under 25s is still around the 50% mark in many parts of Spain.

And Catalunya, of which Barcelona is the capital, has enough problems of it's own with it's fight for independence from the rest of Spain. Plus there will be no Alonso this year, and possibly, or probably, not in 2020 and later.

I thought it might have something to do with the sanctioning fee but had bo idea about the effect the political would have.

There's a natural fan base in Europe. if established European races are struggling. The current business model can't be right. Having these fly-away races in countries, with no motorsports heritage is not the answer. F1 is merely putting a Band-Aid over the problem.

[Mike Harte]

As I wrote earlier, there is still mass unemployment in Spain, especially for the younger population, and as a result, many employers take advantage of their staff. Not only do they not even pay them the legal minimum, but they often also do not give them contracts of employment.

Spain still relies on tourism, and as it so happens, the voters of Barcelona in particular, have actually held pubic rallies to protest that employment is far too reliant on the tourist trade. It also means that employment, especially along the Mediterranean coast, is very seasonal meaning that employees often only get paid for around 6 months a year. And unlike the UK, they cannot just fall back on a generous welfare state because it doesn't exist in Spain. In many cases it is not uncommon for 3 or 4 generations having to survive in one household with maybe only one income to provide for them all.

Barcelona doesn't need the Grand Prix because the city already has a strong stream of visitors who contribute to the coffers. In fact, having the GP drains the public purse, much as many other vanity projects throughout Spain have done and continue to do. Barcelona now has a third international airport which cost hundreds of millions of Euros. But like the one that opened just two months ago further south in Murcia (which cost 300 million to build), they only have a couple of handfuls of planes landing/taking off every week.

And all this really pees off the voters when they are struggling to put a roof over their head and food on the table. And then the local politicians want to spend 25 million or more of the taxpayers money on 20 cars rushing around a circuit for about 90 minutes.

[S griffin]

Obviously the economic situation is far from ideal. But tourism should help the GP IMHO. I know crowd figures are unlikely to be high though

I hope the GP stays, it adds to the calendar being there and is a great location too. We’ll see I suppose

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Marcel ten Caat

Apparently it can be done with just three changes to the track.

1. Shortcut between Gerlach and Hunserug, which means they won't go through Hugenholtz.
2. Addition of a chicane inside Kumho (kinda like Chicane RACC at Barcelona)
3. Asphalt all the way to the barriers at Arie Luyendijk corner, replacing the grass between asphalt and barrier.

Sorry, I just don't believe that.

[Peter Mallett]

No, there's the infrastructure upgrading not to mention grand stands etc.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Obviously the economic situation is far from ideal. But tourism should help the GP IMHO. I know crowd figures are unlikely to be high though

I hope the GP stays, it adds to the calendar being there and is a great location too. We’ll see I suppose

You really don't get it, do you?

Barcelona has one of the highest hotel occupancy rates in the whole of Europe which is the result of it being a wonderful city. It doesn't need nor do it's locals rely on the GP coming into town for three days a year. You, and others, may moan about it's possible loss as you sit in the comfort of your lounge watching the race on TV, but that view is not shared by those taxpayers in Barcelona who have to spend their money for your gratification.

Taxpayers shouldn't be required to subsidise these events, whilst their children can go through their entire years at school being educated in Portakabins, which are stifling in the summer months and cold and damp in the winter. And that's a reality in Barcelona as well as many other towns and cities in Spain.

By the way, this rant is not against the idea that GPs should be held in Europe, just that they shouldn't be subsidised by taxpayers when so many other priorities exist. And successive governments in the UK are fully aware of that fact, which is why Silverstone has struggled..

For all the good that Mr Ecclestone did for F1 in the distant past, he set in motion the killing of the golden goose.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You really don't get it, do you?

Barcelona has one of the highest hotel occupancy rates in the whole of Europe which is the result of it being a wonderful city. It doesn't need nor do it's locals rely on the GP coming into town for three days a year. You, and others, may moan about it's possible loss as you sit in the comfort of your lounge watching the race on TV, but that view is not shared by those taxpayers in Barcelona who have to spend their money for your gratification.

Taxpayers shouldn't be required to subsidise these events, whilst their children can go through their entire years at school being educated in Portakabins, which are stifling in the summer months and cold and damp in the winter. And that's a reality in Barcelona as well as many other towns and cities in Spain.

By the way, this rant is not against the idea that GPs should be held in Europe, just that they shouldn't be subsidised by taxpayers when so many other priorities exist. And successive governments in the UK are fully aware of that fact, which is why Silverstone has struggled..

For all the good that Mr Ecclestone did for F1 in the distant past, he set in motion the killing of the golden goose.

Absolutely.

F1 is like a blood sucking leech, sucking all the life out of motorsport further down.