Champ Car / ALMS Combo

[TedN]

I like this concept. Hope details can be worked out.

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The McDonald's announcement last week — that it is going to promote the Champ Car World Series in TV commercials and elsewhere — is wonderful news. And the rumour that AOL Time Warner is climbing aboard as title sponsor (which could mean a major network television contract) could be the icing on Champ Car's comeback cake.

But there is still a problem with car count. Newman-Haas's plan to add a third car (for F1 refugee Cristiano da Matta) will only offset Forsythe's going from three this year (Paul Tracy, Patrick Carpentier, Rodolfo Lavin) down to two next (scratch Carpentier). And at least four cars at the back of the grid remain on shaky financial ground.

Which makes sense of attempts by Molson Indy to add American Le Mans Series races to a new Champ Car promotion planned for Calgary, as well as to at least one other Canadian event (Vancouver? Toronto?).

Negotiations have been initiated but no announcements are scheduled. Stay tuned.

Ted

[Brian W Keske]

Panoz and Atherton have stated that they are no longer interested after the experiance at Miami.

I cannot see the ALMS/IMSA combining efforts with OWRS for a long time to come. You see, Atherton and Panoz are going their own way, not allowing themselves to be dragged down by another series aggreement with any track promotor. If they make, or lose money, it will be at their 'expense', nobody elses.

The ALMS does not need the OWRS to stay their course. They have their own plan, and are opperating their series in 'the black'.

[macdaddy]

But would the ALMS shrug off a promoter as powerful and well-managed as Molson?

[Brian W Keske]

Good question. But it woukd take 'allot' for this to happen. I guess we should never say never....but...I have my doubts we will see this combo again, or at least for a very long time.

Neither Panoz not Atherton were happy with the Miami arrangement. They were gentelman about it, but their words were pretty clear.

Perhaps Molson could convince the Super Bikes to play, it worked in Montreal, but highly doubtful they would take to the Toronto streets.

Right now, these promotors need another 'big' event to help out their bottom dollar, so it is no surprise they would court the ALMS.

[macdaddy]

Can't argue with what you're saying, Brian. But one thing that every major racing series needs is promoters. And Molson's got to be about the best in the business. It would seem foolish for the ALMS to decline the opportunity to form a partnership with them, regardless of any feelings they may have toward ChampCar.

BTW - Who promoted that Miami event? Was it CART itself?

[Brian W Keske]

Yes, CART bought-out Raceworks and staged the event.

Bottom line, the ALMS is determined to be 'the headliner' at any event. They are not interested in being an 'undercard'. CART treated them as such at Miami. Although this situation may be different, I think the ALMS has shot themselves in the foot in terms of event successs in the past (especially at 'street' events), and they are determined to follow their own destiny. I'm still wondering whatever happened to the Mexico City event. Everyone seems mum about it, and Forsythe has never said a word either.

All you have to do is look at their schedule this year, completly true road courses; that is their foundation. They won't go street racing until they can be assured of success in terms of money, and in terms of the ALMS's stature as a successful 'stand alone' US based road racing series.

[Tim Northcutt]

I'll start out by saying that on the surface, I don't see the ALMS "partnering" with anyone....they stated in last year's "State of the Series" address at Petit Le Mans that they were no longer going to pursue the "self-promoted" or "co-promoted" events of this nature...

They are interested in working with experienced promoters who not only have a proven track record in presenting major racing series events, but also ones that have the financial substance to make it work in the long run....

Having said that, I'm one of the first people who lives by the motto "Never Say Never".....

Maybe Molson's many years of experience as a successful promoter might be a partnership that would interest the ALMS....

If I remember correctly, the ALMS will announce their new season on Friday, Sept. 24 as part of this year's "State of the Series" event the day before Petit Le Mans...

Mr. Atherton was quoted at Mid-Ohio as saying that the series is looking for two things for the future schedules:

1. Another event to be held in a warm weather climate following Sebring (mid-March) and before the Le Mans Test Days weekend (late April), and

2. Races that will be able to "bridge" their events and travel from the East Coast to the West Coast or visa versa that will make logisitics better for the Series and the teams...

Canadian venues might be able to provide those bridges that they seek to get them from Lime Rock to Sears Point with a stop in between at Toronto....

Or from Portland to Mosport or Road America via Calgary...

But the ALMS seems to have a definite course that is well-thought-out for the future...

as of last October, "Co-Promoted" or Self-Promoted" events were not in that future plan...

[paul-collins]

It should be noted that Don Panoz owns Mosport, which would be in direct competition with Toronto. So, whatever the outcome, it won't be that race.

Montreal, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense. ALMS ran quite successfully at Trois Rivieres.

I don't see it happening, though, for all the reasons Brian stated. Of course Don would love to have Molson's marketing savvy behind it, but not at the expense of looking the part of the "support series" for Champcar, which is exactly what happened at Miami.

[paul-collins]

One other thing: who knows what the outfall of the Molson/Coors merger will be. It should be noted that Labatt's pulled much of their marketing $ from sports when Interbrew bought them up.

[Dov]

Would it be possible for the CCWS and ALMS to co-headline one or two races together? The Surfers Paradise race is co-headlined by CC's and the Super V-8 Series. Don Panoz should remember that the CCWS and ALMS have a lot of crossover fans and imho, it would be very positive for both series to work together!

[Brian W Keske]

Dov, I don't think the fan 'crossover' is enough to spur the ALMS intrest.

I am a partcipant (sometimes, but usually read) on the ALMS forum, and I think that the actuall number that are truely a fan of both is fairly small, in fact, many want to stay far away from OWRS, and were unhappy with the series treatment at Miami. Didn't used to be like that in the 80's/90's.

[Fogelhund]

While the treatment at Miami has been referenced here, there is also a very large sore spot over the Mexico race that was scheduled to run in 02'. The promoter pulled the rug out from that one, and that promoter was Forsythe.

While I agree that working together would have been in the good of both series, CART/OWRS has pulled one on ALMS twice, in order to better themselves. Not only would it be correct, in suggesting that most ALMS fans have little interest in a combined event, I would go so far as to suggest that CART cost themselves some fans over their activities.

Having said all of this, Molson is an interesting allure. If the ALMS could broker a deal with Molson to sponsor the Mosport race, and in exchange they raced at say Montreal, then it could be worth doing.

[MolsonBoy]

Originally posted by paul-collins
One other thing: who knows what the outfall of the Molson/Coors merger will be. It should be noted that Labatt's pulled much of their marketing $ from sports when Interbrew bought them up.

There is a slight difference here Paul. Interbrew bought Labatts. Molson Coors merger is exactly that a merger with 55% owned by Molson and 45% by Coors. As for the future marketing plan I can not say. I hope to ask the Molson CEO on Thursday when he comes to Edmonton to talk about the merger.

[MolsonBoy]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Having said all of this, Molson is an interesting allure. If the ALMS could broker a deal with Molson to sponsor the Mosport race, and in exchange they raced at say Montreal, then it could be worth doing.

I keep hearing rumors about ALMS running in Edmonton in 05. There have been a number of stories in the local papers about this. The race would run on the City Center Airport. One sticking point that has come up is the number of days that the airport would be shut down in order to run the event.

[gttouring]

of course if they add Mosport then it will be on ALMS terms and being the gentlemen they are the ALMS would show Champcar and OWRS how to run a double billed ticket
sounds like win win to me

[Fogelhund]

Just a thought... I wonder if Panoz is trying to sell G-Force chassis to OWRS????

[gttouring]

by supplying OWRS gForce chassis it will help bridge the gap for a union
afterall the sponsorship squabbling and series infighting and such will be alleviated a bit if there was one open wheel series, and who else reaps the benfits, but ALMS as well as all of us.

[The Snout]

The quote above says it's "attempts by Molson Indy". So I don't think OWRS cares one way or another about that series joining them in any race weekend.

[Brian W Keske]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Just a thought... I wonder if Panoz is trying to sell G-Force chassis to OWRS????

If he did he risks being removed as an approved IRL chassis supplier.

Panoz is making money in the IRL, why would he want to risk losing that to a series that does not have a new chassis spec in the foreseeable future?

If OWRS turns a corner and it becomes more viable for Panoz to 'leave' the IRL series, I'm sure he would. First and foremost he is a businessman, but he obviously enjoys the money being made in the IRL right now.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by MolsonBoy
There is a slight difference here Paul. Interbrew bought Labatts. Molson Coors merger is exactly that a merger with 55% owned by Molson and 45% by Coors. As for the future marketing plan I can not say. I hope to ask the Molson CEO on Thursday when he comes to Edmonton to talk about the merger.

Oh, I know there's a difference, and I hope that Molson is able to keep their presence up. I believe that Labatt's has suffered at the taps for their lack of presence, and that's why they bid up the Hockey Night In Canada broadcasts a few years ago.

Hey, Snout, if it's Molson's driving the bus on bringing ALMS in, perhaps they're worried about Champcar's future. After all, where is Champcar in Canada without Molson?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by MolsonBoy
I keep hearing rumors about ALMS running in Edmonton in 05. There have been a number of stories in the local papers about this. The race would run on the City Center Airport. One sticking point that has come up is the number of days that the airport would be shut down in order to run the event.

That sticking point would have to be resolved in 16 days....that's when the ALMS will anounce their season....

There have been rumors that the 2005 ALMS season will have 10 events (one more than this season)....

But the speculations have been geared more toward an early April event in the Sun Belt (Barber Motorsports Park maybe???) that would be held after Sebring but before the Le Mans Test days at the end of April....

However, Edmonton would provide a possible "Bridge" for teams and the series after Portland and before Mosport...

Guess we won't know until the 24th...

Added Note:

Fogelhund's post on Mexico, when added to Miami, and toss in the non-CART-related problems they had with the promoter in Washington DC not taking care of concerns and thus leading to that race dying in 2003 and you can see why the ALMS no longer has "Co-Promote" or "Self-Promote" events in their business plan....

I just don't see an OWRS/ALMS "partnership" on the same track or the same weekend....the ALMS won't do it....

But the scenario with Molson's being involved at Mosport in exchange for a Montreal race on the calendar.....with Molson's as the "promoter and Presenter" could be an interesting twist to this....

[Brian W Keske]

I agree Tim...and I also hear that the ALMS wants to provide a race for themselves between Le Mans testing and the race. That has been a big issue for the series, and one I think they want to address first.

[paul-collins]

Rumour is there won't be time between testing and LM for a stateside race this year.

[The Treester]

Originally posted by gttouring
of course if they add Mosport then it will be on ALMS terms and being the gentlemen they are the ALMS would show Champcar and OWRS how to run a double billed ticket
sounds like win win to me

Well put gttouring

As a credential holder for ALMS/IMSA, and as stated before, last year in Miami showed how much respect CART gave ALMS as a support event! Not to be bias, ALMS race was a better race!

The other two series similar to the two earlier mentions, has a better relationship because of the "roval connection". As always, my point of view, Homestead race in March for the past years have always been tension free unless I've missed something! My guess is that next year they will also share the Watkins Glen event?!?!?!

Why don't OWRS/ALMS take notes from Homestead to settle the power trips between the two series?!?!?!?
:confused
:

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Brian W Keske
I agree Tim...and I also hear that the ALMS wants to provide a race for themselves between Le Mans testing and the race. That has been a big issue for the series, and one I think they want to address first.

They actually did that in 2002...they ran at Sears Point....

I would think that going to La Sarthe for Test Days, coming back to the States to race, then going back again to LM would be very tough on the teams (who would need to take their data from the Tests and prepare for the Big One) and expensive as well....

But on the Sportscar Forum, ther also is a rumor going around that the Test Days might be moved to a couple of weeks prior to Le Mans (Don Panoz has allegedly been lobbying for this for some time, according to the poster who shared this)....

which would make Sebring, an April date, and a May date very do-able and very beneficial to the Series....

But we won't know what is up with that until the ALMS releases their schedule....

and speaking of schedules and coincidence:

OWRS is expected to release next season in "Late September"....

Petit Le Mans is in late September....thus, IF ( a BIG IF BTW for the reasons stated above) the subject of this thread IS in the works, both Series would announce at about the same time and not steal each other's thunder....

Coincidence???

Or By Design???

I think coincidence...but I've been wrong before...