1st gen chevrolet Camaro grp 2 specs and details

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by eb911

Al, do you have some pictures of this car ?

I just saw one from Jon Bryant on Face book I am sure he wont mind me putting a link here, it shows a good shot of the rear arch.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.ph...type=1&theater

[Clive Brown]

harumph... If I remember rightly, back in the day, the exhausts on big bangers came out under the doors....

[eb911]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

harumph... If I remember rightly, back in the day, the exhausts on big bangers came out under the doors....

Yes they did but I assume that with noise restrictions on some tracks, it will become necessary to think of alternative exhaust systems including silencers.

[Peter Mallett]

Interestingly, I once saw that Camaro described in an entry list as Group 1.

[Al Weyman]

I was chatting to the owner/driver and it sad Group 2 on the text on the side giving its history, I may be mistaken but pretty sure it was also cannot see it ever being a group 1 car as it has different Ford pattern Strange Engineering axle shafts in a GM 12 bolt axle and 16" wheels. There are a few about in this paint scheme, it was orginally black in the day and was confirmed by the original builder as the real McCoy.

The exhaust on my 2nd Gen still comes out the side there is room in there for two silencers still. It passed the noise test no problem.

[Alan Morgan]

Originally Posted by eb911

So as to go a little deeper regarding the wheel width that could be homologated in period G2, I need to find evidences that such dimension were used in period. So, if I take the RAC TT which was a ETCC round and the 24 hours of Spa, which are the typical period magazines that would print the results of such events, and maybe describe a little specs of the cars ? Autosport ? Another one ? And in Belgium for Spa ?

This site seems to contain a lot of info

http://www.touringcarracing.net/Pages/ETCC.html

http://www.touringcarracing.net/Page...s%20Hatch.html

[eb911]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

This site seems to contain a lot of info

http://www.touringcarracing.net/Pages/ETCC.html

http://www.touringcarracing.net/Page...s%20Hatch.html

This is probably the best site dealing with touring cars. Lots of information and period pictures. But the FIA wants period magazines or race results, dated, which will prove this spec or that spec was used in period.

[pomracer]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Interestingly, I once saw that Camaro described in an entry list as Group 1.

Looks like the ex Martin Thomas car ???????????

[Al Weyman]

That was one of the names on the car so well spotted, if you want another good view of the car check out Tom Barleys incar video on the Speedfest threads as the Camaro spins right in front of Tom. Dont quote me but I think Roy Pierpoint (??) maybe another of the names

[eb911]

Al, I would be pleased to discuss that car with the owner. If you have any contact details, please PM me. thanks.

[Al Weyman]

I don't but he seems a very approachable guy and proud of his car. He told me when he bought it he was not totally aware if it was genuine and wasnt really bothered but as he looked more into he realised it could be and the original builder came around to inspect the car and confirmed indeed it was. If you see the spinning shot on the video you will note his number, g to TSL Timing for the event and you will get the guys name, the owner drove it in race 2 not race 1.

[rogier]

The FIA has homologation reports of the following camaros that can be bought for 65 euros. I want to build a camaro 1st gen as well and need to have these details as well. I asked FIA directly and I will be using one of the homologated cars as an example:

Nr 1449, Group 2, Chevrolet Camaro 01-01-1967, 4956cc
Nr 5158, Group 1, Chevrolet Camaro 01-07-1967, 5735cc
Nr 5201, Group 1, Chevrolet Camaro 01-01-1968, 6492cc
Nr 5293, Group 1, Chevrolet Camaro Z28, 01-07-1969, 4956cc

Good luck and let me know what you find!

[Jeff Barley]

LHi all .. Been a while since I connected with 10-10ths and must confess my camaro researching has taken a back seat for a few years so I hope you will bear with my rustiness and also note that my research material is in storage so most of what I might add to this forum will be from memory , and if so I will say so as misinformation is a disaster to fellow enthusiasts if it is taken as gospel
All that out of the way, can I add a couple of comments..
1. I too have a set of papers for a first gen' camaro .. The "1449" set and was curious of the comment that the MSA didn't recognise them .. FYI the set I have show the FIA stamp but also every page is perforated with the "RAC motor sport assn ltd " stamp so can 't see how the MSA can say they don't recognise them?
2. I noticed that the papers refer to model "camaro 12437".. And wondered if this is supposed to be the model code for a '67 camaro? .. If so then FROM MEMORY isn't the code for a '67 = 12347? .. Ie is the number on the papers a typo error ? ( small but mute point unless my memory is playing tricks)
3. The papers are obviously prepared for a 1st gen car .. I have always considered the '69 camaro to be the 2nd generation model with the next model ( 70 1/2) being third generation in my opinion..
4. I don't think the original papers homologise the z28 as rear drum brakes only appear o be illustrated?
5. A variant form dated 1st July 1967 reflects changes to acceptable wheels / bucket seats / radiator / fuel tank and axle ratios.. All of which are obviously for a '67 model car
6. The next variant is dated 1st January 1968 so is clearly for a '67 and a '68 model ( 1st gen using my notation) .. It covers inlet manifolds (cross ram) / wheels / trans ratios / and introduces rear disc brakes (for the first time?) and calipers / fuel pump
7.the next variant is dated 1st jan 1969 .. The point I am raising here is that the papers still refer to model (12437.. Typo?) but now shows a 3/4 view which is obviously a '69 car ( 2 nd gen?). .. It is this variant that provides more racer- biased changes including the option of the ally heads ( PN 3965706) but also the desirable cowl induction hood + diff and trans coolers.
8. The final variant seems to be date stamped 1st April 1970 ( pr 1971?) and this covers simply " fender flares" as shown on one of the earlier posts.. From my copy it LOOKS like these are being shown on a 67 or 68 car (??) but does show significant flaring of the aches.
... My question is a) whether a set of FIA papers covering the 1st generation camaro should have included variations introduced by the emergence of the 1969 model ( externally quite a different car) and whether the intention of these papers is to permit (say) a 1967 camaro to be prepared as an FIA car using the last few variations listed above when the car upon which these are based is clearly a '69 model ?.. Or do you need to start with a 69 model camaro if you want to take advantage of the last listed options including he ally heads?
Apologies for rambling .. Or rustiness.. Feel free to correct.. Just throwing this out there..
Ps .. For the record.. I owned one of al's IROC camaros .. And can confirm for what it's worth that he does indeed own a banjo- Mathews / penske prepared car.. I eventually had to store it at brands ( where I was one of the directors) but eventually had to ask CHRIS (who ran brands automotive team) to dispose of it as we were carrying out a series of improvements to the venue and were getting short of storage space. To my shame I told CHRIS to scrap it (!!!) but to my later surprise he flogged it so it ended up with al weyman ( thank god) .. It had nothing to do with our eventual sale of the venue to Jonathan Palmer.. I think Nicky (foulston ) was just sick of seeing what she saw as a "heap of junk strapped on the back of a trailor" .. I think she had a point ..

[Jeff Barley]

Just answered my own question via marvels of the www.. The 12437 ref in the FIA papers IS correct and IS relevant to a 69 model .. See below.. So the 1449 papers cover a "Chevrolet (1) camaro (2) V8 (4) coupe (37) ....their suffix does NOT identify the year model which would have then followed by a 7 ( for 67) or an 8 ( for 68) or a 9 ( if it was specific to a 69)
... So can one build an FIA spec camaro to the 70 (71?) FIA variant specs using a 67 model camaro?



12ebbYPxxxxxx e.g. 124379N506070
where
1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
e = 3 for 6-cylinder engine, or
4 for 8-cylinder engine
bb = 37 for coupe body, or
67 for convertible body
Y = 7 for 1967 model,
8 for 1968 model, or
9 for 1969 model
P = N for Norwood, OH assembly plant, or
L for Los Angeles, CA assembly plant
xxxxxx = vehicle serial number sequence

At each plant, the vehicle serial number
started the year at the following number:

100001 for 1967 models
300001 for 1968 models
500001 for 1969 models

[Al Weyman]

Ps .. For the record.. I owned one of al's IROC camaros .. And can confirm for what it's worth that he does indeed own a banjo- Mathews / penske prepared car.. I eventually had to store it at brands ( where I was one of the directors) but eventually had to ask CHRIS (who ran brands automotive team) to dispose of it as we were carrying out a series of improvements to the venue and were getting short of storage space. To my shame I told CHRIS to scrap it (!!!) but to my later surprise he flogged it so it ended up with al weyman ( thank god) .. It had nothing to do with our eventual sale of the venue to Jonathan Palmer.. I think Nicky (foulston ) was just sick of seeing what she saw as a "heap of junk strapped on the back of a trailor" .. I think she had a point ..

Hi Jeff,

Not the same car actually. Mine is more complete than your old one and raced in Thunder Saloons and in the Lynton Trailers Northern Saloons series. I know the bloke who has bought yours and is intending to do something with it but that is car number 10 mine is car 11 and when I bought it came complete as a working car. See the stampings in the picture which shows what car it is.

[Jeff Barley]

Hi al .. I was always under the impression that you had acquired my old car good luck with your project..

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Jeff Barley

Just answered my own question via marvels of the www.. The 12437 ref in the FIA papers IS correct and IS relevant to a 69 model .. See below.. So the 1449 papers cover a "Chevrolet (1) camaro (2) V8 (4) coupe (37) ....their suffix does NOT identify the year model which would have then followed by a 7 ( for 67) or an 8 ( for 68) or a 9 ( if it was specific to a 69)
... So can one build an FIA spec camaro to the 70 (71?) FIA variant specs using a 67 model camaro?

I think that is probably correct but if you are in a race for, say, pre 1970 cars you couldn't use the later homologated parts - i.e. the flared wheelarches.

[eb911]

Do you guys know if Brian Muir or Terry Sanger used a dry sump system on their Camaro in period ?
I know the SCCA legalized the dry sump system in 1971 in the USA resulting in the top teams moving to dry sump.
But I am looking for any input (doc, picture) showing evidence that Muir or Sanger used one on their car, or more generally that a 1st gen Camaro used a dry sump system in European racing in 1968-1971.

Thanks.