Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Baltic Touring Car Championship Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > WTCC & European Touring Car Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17 Jan 2021, 16:34 (Ref:4029654)   #1
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 10,298
Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
BTCC of yesteryear

I thought I might create a thread to discuss the BTCC of the past as I myself have been guilty of straying into past history talk in a few threads.

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...ll-astra-coupe

This article caught my eye. Neal stated that after the first few rounds of 2001, the Astra was pegged back by having a bolt inserted under the throttle pedal which only allowed 70-80% throttle. This kinda blew my mind a bit as dont think this was ever disclosed as a performance balancing measure.
Sodemo is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 18:38 (Ref:4029675)   #2
Mondeo Man33
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Chester
Posts: 100
Mondeo Man33 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes a very interesting read. I’d heard this mentioned before (“we weren’t even running at full throttle” etc) but I’m not sure I ever really believed it until reading this!
Mondeo Man33 is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 18:54 (Ref:4029677)   #3
Sodemo
Veteran
 
Sodemo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
United Kingdom
Solihull, West Mids, UK
Posts: 10,298
Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well in those days "performance balancing" wasn't really a thing, not in the same way they have now. OK you could argue that in supertouring the different min weight of FWD, RWD and AWD was a performance balancer in a basic sense, but not in the same way as today when engine performance, aero performance, weight all come into play.
Sodemo is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2021, 19:49 (Ref:4029680)   #4
Mondeo Man33
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Chester
Posts: 100
Mondeo Man33 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes it’s somewhat more complicated now for sure. I can remember when Charlie Cox demonstrated what a weight penalty looked like by using bags of sugar - it probably wasn’t too far removed from what was actually used in the cars at the time!
Mondeo Man33 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 13:25 (Ref:4029845)   #5
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13,163
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
I think it’s good to have a thread about the BTCC of the past. There’s plenty to discuss How far back do you want to go?

I saw that article on the Astras too. Success ballast was already around at the time. So the throttle wound back for quali was interesting. I wonder if Vauxhall agreed to it because they knew it wouldn’t make much difference?
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 19:49 (Ref:4029923)   #6
Mondeo Man33
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Chester
Posts: 100
Mondeo Man33 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I think it’s good to have a thread about the BTCC of the past. There’s plenty to discuss How far back do you want to go?

I saw that article on the Astras too. Success ballast was already around at the time. So the throttle wound back for quali was interesting. I wonder if Vauxhall agreed to it because they knew it wouldn’t make much difference?
That’s a good question! You’d think that a team with an advantage wouldn’t want to give it away, but like you say maybe they knew it wasn’t going to make any difference..
Mondeo Man33 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 16:55 (Ref:4029893)   #7
CarfanLUFC
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Zimbabwe
A Yorkshire Farm
Posts: 131
CarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My personal favourite years are 88 to 95. The late 80's saw the last of the Group A cars but what iconic cars they were. Especially 89, plenty of RS500's on the grid.

In 90 some of the Group A grids were a bit thin but the racing was still good.

The racing was also excellent in the early years of the 2.0 litre class and Class B (the birth of super touring)

After 95 I felt the cars became a bit too much, although 98 is seen as the Zenith of Super Touring and some of the racing was superb it's the early days of the category that I enjoy the most.

Genuine mix of professional and Gentlemen drivers as well.
CarfanLUFC is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 16:59 (Ref:4029896)   #8
CarfanLUFC
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Zimbabwe
A Yorkshire Farm
Posts: 131
CarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track

And let's not forget a certain stalwart of the series in the 80's....

"These turkey's, they're gonna have to start getting up early in the morning if they want to take me and my team on"
CarfanLUFC is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Jan 2021, 19:55 (Ref:4029924)   #9
Mondeo Man33
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Chester
Posts: 100
Mondeo Man33 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track

And let's not forget a certain stalwart of the series in the 80's....

"These turkey's, they're gonna have to start getting up early in the morning if they want to take me and my team on"
I don’t remember hearing about Sytner having a beef with Matt Neal, but I think they were only team mates for one race so he didn’t have much chance!

Was it Dave Brodie who said that? He certainly was a character! His black Sierra Sapphire was a fantastic looking car, I wonder where it is now?
Mondeo Man33 is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 08:26 (Ref:4029979)   #10
touringcarnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
India
Hyderabad, India
Posts: 859
touringcarnut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Did Frank Sytner ever have a teammate he got on with? Mike Smith, James Weaver, Kurt Luby all felt the Sytner anger...................Weaver and Luby for the having the sheer audacity to out race Frank on the track
Winning the 1988 Championship in part because of the class system might have got to one's head! Great racer and character all the same
touringcarnut is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 09:38 (Ref:4029986)   #11
CarfanLUFC
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Zimbabwe
A Yorkshire Farm
Posts: 131
CarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by touringcarnut View Post
Winning the 1988 Championship in part because of the class system might have got to one's head! Great racer and character all the same
Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.
CarfanLUFC is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 10:40 (Ref:4029993)   #12
VIVA GT
Subscriber
Veteran
 
VIVA GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
England
Leicestershire
Posts: 4,907
VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!VIVA GT is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.
I'm not so sure about that, Andy Middlehurst was closing fast in the Sierra Cosworth on wet tyres...
VIVA GT is offline  
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange!
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 12:35 (Ref:4030014)   #13
CarfanLUFC
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Zimbabwe
A Yorkshire Farm
Posts: 131
CarfanLUFC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
I'm not so sure about that, Andy Middlehurst was closing fast in the Sierra Cosworth on wet tyres...
Good point, it's easy to forget what a solid job Middlehurst did that in Sierra in 91. Unfortunately never really built on it in BTCC terms. Successful in Saloons though

We also had the Mitsubishi on track in 91, two different cars actually and also that Rover which had no factory support.

Shame Mitsubishi didn't stick around. I remember Gravett really struggling early season in the Sapphire as well.
CarfanLUFC is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 14:18 (Ref:4030030)   #14
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 13,163
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
Without doubt, good driver as well which I didn't really give him the credit for in the original post.

He would of course have easily won at Silverstone 91 had the race not been abandoned for the rain storm. Would have been a nice win for the unsponsored privately entered M3 from Pyramid.

That race has always intrigued me. There’s a few minutes of highlights on the season review, which includes Cleland’s off and Sytner taking the lead prior to the red flag. Also there’s a bit of footage on Tales from the Tarmac, where I notice Ayles also on wets was second behind Fearless Frank, but I want to know more about this race

The late Frank de Jong’s site carries a bit more info, but not enough. Has anyone got a full race report? I want to know how the race developed and who was still running at the end and in what order prior to the controversial countback
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 19 Jan 2021, 22:25 (Ref:4030127)   #15
touringcarnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
India
Hyderabad, India
Posts: 859
touringcarnut should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
That race has always intrigued me. There’s a few minutes of highlights on the season review, which includes Cleland’s off and Sytner taking the lead prior to the red flag. Also there’s a bit of footage on Tales from the Tarmac, where I notice Ayles also on wets was second behind Fearless Frank, but I want to know more about this race

The late Frank de Jong’s site carries a bit more info, but not enough. Has anyone got a full race report? I want to know how the race developed and who was still running at the end and in what order prior to the controversial countback
Would love to know this as well!
touringcarnut is offline  
__________________
Yours to Discover
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ETCC to join BTCC under new rules / New ETCC to BTCC thing (merged) racingdick WTCC & European Touring Car Series 33 16 Jun 2003 17:20
Current BTCC drivers who raced in BTCC supporting series' before racing in the BTCC Invincible WTCC & European Touring Car Series 18 27 Dec 2001 22:32


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.