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Old 24 Jan 2021, 18:50 (Ref:4030959)   #31
BTCC frog
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BTCC frog should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBTCC frog should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
2020:

Points from race one:
1. Dan Cammish 140
2. Tom Ingram 121
3. Colin Turkington 119
4. Rory Butcher 108
5. Ash Sutton 103
6. Jake Hill 87
7. Adam Morgan 66
8. Matt Neal 64
9. Tom Chilton 57
10. Josh Cook 52
11. Tom Oliphant 51
12. Ollie Jackson 36
13. Chris Smiley 33
14. Senna Proctor 32
15. Stephen Jelley 32
16. Michael Crees 21
17. Bobby Thompson 17
18. Aiden Moffat 16
19. Sam Osborne 9
20. Carl Boardley 6
21. Rob Austin 4
22. James Gornall 3
23. Andy Neate 1
24. Paul Rivett 1

Points from race two:
1. Colin Turkington 128
2. Tom Ingram 123
3. Ash Sutton 114
4. Dan Cammish 106
5. Rory Butcher 85
6. Tom Oliphant 76
7. Jake Hill 66
8. Adam Morgan 62
9. Matt Neal 62
10. Josh Cook 60
11. Ollie Jackson 49
12. Senna Proctor 48
13. Tom Chilton 44
14. Aiden Moffat 35
15. Chris Smiley 32
16. Stephen Jelley 20
17. Michael Crees 18
18. Bobby Thompson 17
19. Sam Osborne 9
20. James Gornall 6
21. Jack Goff 6
22. Carl Boardley 6
23. Rob Austin 4
24. Andy Neate 2
25. Mike Bushell 1

Points from race three:
1. Ash Sutton 117
2. Tom Oliphant 99
3. Rory Butcher 84
4. Tom Chilton 82
5. Dan Cammish 79
6. Colin Turkington 77
7. Adam Morgan 77
8. Josh Cook 76
9. Tom Ingram 72
10. Ollie Jackson 64
11. Senna Proctor 61
12. Jake Hill 59
13. Aiden Moffat 54
14. Matt Neal 54
15. Chris Smiley 40
16. Stephen Jelley 20
17. Michael Crees 11
18. Sam Osborne 11
19. Bobby Thompson 10
20. James Gornall 9
21. Carl Boardley 6
22. Rob Austin 5
23. Jack Goff 5
24. Ollie Brown 3
25. Jack Butel 2
26. Glynn Geddie 1
27. Nic Hamilton 1

Dan Cammish is the top scorer in race one for the third year in a row. The main thing I found interesting here was Ash Sutton, who was fifth in race one and third in race two, significantly behind Turkington, Cammish and Ingram for race one and two combined, but he made up for it by winning race three comfortably. This makes sense with the Infiniti's problem with qualifying, but much better race pace.
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Old 26 Jan 2021, 11:55 (Ref:4031269)   #32
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Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post
In 94 and 95 the Rouse prepared Mondeo's seems to really chew their front tyres up. I'm still not sure to this day if that was the set up of the car, the car itself or if Radisich was over driving it constantly in his attempts to keep with the Alfas (and then the BMW's, Vauxhalls, Volvo's and Renaults)

Also, totally agree with you about the 19. Even in the fairly early years of Super Touring that car looked nothing like you'd expect to be on the grid, it looked so out of place. If it wasn't for those superb Michelin wets it would have been a season of absolutely nothing, especially when you consider the driver line up.

Glorified national saloon car cup entrant. Nigel Albon did a fairly credible job keeping the car fairly competitive in the 94 Total cup given the likes of Nigel Smith were running an ex RML EE Cavalier which was no slouch. Even managed to pick up a win.

I seem to remember Radisich saying they had found a tyre compound that suited the car towards the end of 94, hence why he was able to dominate the World Cup at Donington. The main problem in 95 was the heavy V6 put a lot of strain on the front tyres. They seemed to have sorted the problem in 96, for although the car was seldom competitive, it did seem to be more consistent over a race distance
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Old 26 Jan 2021, 12:53 (Ref:4031276)   #33
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I seem to remember Radisich saying they had found a tyre compound that suited the car towards the end of 94, hence why he was able to dominate the World Cup at Donington. The main problem in 95 was the heavy V6 put a lot of strain on the front tyres. They seemed to have sorted the problem in 96, for although the car was seldom competitive, it did seem to be more consistent over a race distance
By 1996 the other manufacturers were all racing to improve and the Mondeo got a little left behind by then on the development curve.

On the V6 isaue, I recall a similar problem for the MG XS in 2001-2002? as it had a V6 in it and it caused tyre wear and unbalanced the car.
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Old 26 Jan 2021, 17:53 (Ref:4031325)   #34
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Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC View Post

Also, totally agree with you about the 19. Even in the fairly early years of Super Touring that car looked nothing like you'd expect to be on the grid, it looked so out of place. If it wasn't for those superb Michelin wets it would have been a season of absolutely nothing, especially when you consider the driver line up.

Glorified national saloon car cup entrant. Nigel Albon did a fairly credible job keeping the car fairly competitive in the 94 Total cup given the likes of Nigel Smith were running an ex RML EE Cavalier which was no slouch. Even managed to pick up a win.
Hence the comments by Tim Harvey a few years back in a 'the worst car I ever drove' interview about it looking like a 'converted road car'. IIRC it was designed and built by Renault's rally team, and it showed!
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Old 27 Jan 2021, 11:19 (Ref:4031456)   #35
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Indeed. Jean Rangotti and I seem to remember Tim saying thatt they put a handbrake in the car, because that’s what Jean liked!

The team did miss Knockhill that year to develop the car and it paid off, as Menu finished, with Cleland just ahead of him, in 4th, although the was still never going to be a world beater, so quite rightly they switched to the Laguna for 94
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 10:52 (Ref:4032004)   #36
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Why did the series go from BSCC to BTCC? Saloon and Touring cars as labels for cars are much of a muchness as Barry Sheene would say?

Speaking of Sheene, I was watching the 92 French 500cc on youtube yesterday. He revealed during commentary of news to me that Wayne Gardner and Steve Soper are mates.
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 11:05 (Ref:4032009)   #37
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Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star View Post
Why did the series go from BSCC to BTCC?
Because in 1986 there were zero saloons running in Group A - and in mid to late '80s UK, saloons were seen as for the elderly driver, whilst the young, upwardly mobile crowd were driving hot hatches.

R5GT, Golf Gti, Escort RS Turbo and Corolla GT were the cars of choice for cruising, and the BTCC reflected this. Not a saloon in sight.
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 13:09 (Ref:4032043)   #38
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The BSCC had hit an all time low in 86. It needed a fresh start in 87. Calling it the British Touring Car Championship brought it in line with the ETCC and the WTCC
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 14:02 (Ref:4032063)   #39
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pimmy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Pretty much every other comparable series around the world was a "Touring Car Championship". I guess the organisers thought they'd bring the name into line with everyone else, and as mentioned, it needed a refresh after the disastrous period of 84-86.
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 14:57 (Ref:4032076)   #40
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There is a separate section for “Motorsport History” and that is what is being discussed here, not “historic racing today”
Indeed

Many of us know my penchant for threads about BSCC/BTCC and wider touring car history.

I suggest those not aware of the level of discussion that has occurred over time might take a look in the History Forum and you will find loads of appropriate threads - anything from the 50's through to the 90's!

That's my History sales pitch done!

This thread should be moved there please hosts...
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Old 31 Jan 2021, 00:33 (Ref:4032277)   #41
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Good information.
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 09:28 (Ref:4032737)   #42
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The BSCC had hit an all time low in 86. It needed a fresh start in 87.
Really? I did a rewatch of the Gr.A season reviews a while ago and it really didn't seem all that bad to me. Certainly much better than the early 2000s or even the Spice-Capri-wins-everything period in the late 70s, early 80s.
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 11:44 (Ref:4032765)   #43
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Maybe it wasn’t so bad, but it was clear it needed a rejig, the BSCC seemed to be no longer relevant. Yes we’ve had some dark times since, but the series has always bounced. We have a lot to look back on since the days of the BSCC and now the BTCC
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 11:51 (Ref:4032769)   #44
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Maybe it wasn’t so bad, but it was clear it needed a rejig, the BSCC seemed to be no longer relevant.
May I ask what you are basing that statement on please?

I have read this - http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1986%20BSCC.html - but when the opening sentence describes the 'RAC' championship as being sponsorless, I have to question the accuracy...
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 12:05 (Ref:4032771)   #45
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May I ask what you are basing that statement on please?

I have read this - http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1986%20BSCC.html - but when the opening sentence describes the 'RAC' championship as being sponsorless, I have to question the accuracy...
rac wasnt a sponsor
rac (royal automobile club) was the governing body in those days.

like when it used to be called the msa british touring car championship. msa was the governing body not a sponsor
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