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Old 16 Oct 2021, 17:48 (Ref:4078744)   #2251
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Yes his point is the engine is great, but not suitable for road use.

So while Vettel is my favorite driver I am not sure I agree with him about the need to be road relevant.

But wnut makes a reasonable point that perhaps should be a consideration and many think like this, the future road car engines and environmental credentials are important and perhaps F1 should adopt them.. More EV output would be a start.
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Old 16 Oct 2021, 17:58 (Ref:4078745)   #2252
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Yes his point is the engine is great, but not suitable for road use.

So while Vettel is my favorite driver I am not sure I agree with him about the need to be road relevant.

But wnut makes a reasonable point that perhaps should be a consideration and many think like this, the future road car engines and environmental credentials are important and perhaps F1 should adopt them.. More EV output would be a start.

That's what Vettel is saying. Asked if he thinks the sport could die out, Vettel told Motorsport Total: “Sure, and I think it‘s valid because Formula 1 is not green.''
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Old 17 Oct 2021, 00:44 (Ref:4078814)   #2253
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Yes his point is the engine is great, but not suitable for road use.

So while Vettel is my favorite driver I am not sure I agree with him about the need to be road relevant.

But wnut makes a reasonable point that perhaps should be a consideration and many think like this, the future road car engines and environmental credentials are important and perhaps F1 should adopt them.. More EV output would be a start.
Socially and politically relevant might be what is required.

Governments around the world have banned two strokes for recreation purposes so as the move to zero emission vehicles gains momentum I expect that similar bans will be enforced for all sorts of reasons. While not impacting F1 directly the money tree that drives it will be impacted via the sponsors not willing to fund ICE racing. All speculation at this time but it seems like a reasonable outcome. Hardly a week goes by without companies around the world announcing withdrawing from carbon producing projects.
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Old 17 Oct 2021, 06:42 (Ref:4078843)   #2254
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That's what Vettel is saying. Asked if he thinks the sport could die out, Vettel told Motorsport Total: “Sure, and I think it‘s valid because Formula 1 is not green.''
What is environmentally green may not be politically green.
And what is green is often a matter of opinion between people and at a variance with the facts
There is a discord between the two, so what does Vettel MEAN when he says F1 is not 'Green'
I'm often amused by some perceptions that what governments choose is always the best and wisest choice/decision when it is obviously not, even when its democratically determined.
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Old 17 Oct 2021, 06:52 (Ref:4078845)   #2255
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Obviously Vettel has been the one who has spoken out on a lot of issues this year, whether it's the environment, LGBTQ rights or the F1 calendar and I applaud him for that

This environmental issiue is very complicated and maybe Vettel has a point when he says Hybrids may not be the best thing for the environment. After all there's other alternative fuels out there. However I do agree with those that say F1 shouldn't need to be road relevant. It's always been a sport in it's own right, not a road car technology demonstration
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Old 17 Oct 2021, 11:17 (Ref:4078868)   #2256
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That's what Vettel is saying. Asked if he thinks the sport could die out, Vettel told Motorsport Total: “Sure, and I think it‘s valid because Formula 1 is not green.''

No matter what one's opinion is about what constitutes a green philosophy, F1 is far, far away from being green, and although I am a petrol head and very far from being a tree hugger, I also think that we do need to take climate change more seriously than at present.

F1 cars are not the real problem; the twenty cars only run for about 4 hours every other weekend. It's everything else that spews out all the nasty stuff to maintain having those cars going around every other weekend.

Whilst in Europe, we have goodness knows how many heavy goods trucks going from place to place, many of them stuffed with the portable gin palaces that F1 seems to have to have to entertain the hangers on and groupies, as well as decorating their pit garages which in reality is just for vanity's sake.

Meanwhile, for the fly away races, F1 requires about 4 or 5 747s to carry just what they cannot put in to containers and ship to the various circuits. And then there are the tyres which do go into containers and which are shipped months in advance.

But the problem there is that ships are probably the largest "polluters" of the lot and in our quest to buy more and more goods from the Far East, the shipping companies are building more and more container ships. Just in the USA, in the last few days, there were more than 50 container ships queuing outside just two of their ports waiting to unload cargoes, some waiting not hours, not days but in some cases weeks to get alongside the gantries.

And then there are the F1 guests and the spectators. The vast majority of the spectators will have travelled by car, some for many hours to get to the circuits. As for the guests, a number will have been flown to the country where the GP takes place in their private jets and then, with other guest, transfer to the circuits by helicopter alongside some of the drivers. Did you know that the record for the most air traffic movements to take place on a single day into one place in the UK is held by Silverstone on a Sunday for a GP?

So, all in all, and I've only touched on a sliver of F1, Vettel is quite right. And there is also the road relevance which is very important to especially Renault and possibly VAG in the future, but also to a great extent Mercedes and Honda; they need to be seen to be behaving pretty ethically from a PR perception point of view.
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Old 17 Oct 2021, 12:36 (Ref:4078876)   #2257
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
No matter what one's opinion is about what constitutes a green philosophy, F1 is far, far away from being green, and although I am a petrol head and very far from being a tree hugger, I also think that we do need to take climate change more seriously than at present.

F1 cars are not the real problem; the twenty cars only run for about 4 hours every other weekend. It's everything else that spews out all the nasty stuff to maintain having those cars going around every other weekend.

Whilst in Europe, we have goodness knows how many heavy goods trucks going from place to place, many of them stuffed with the portable gin palaces that F1 seems to have to have to entertain the hangers on and groupies, as well as decorating their pit garages which in reality is just for vanity's sake.

Meanwhile, for the fly away races, F1 requires about 4 or 5 747s to carry just what they cannot put in to containers and ship to the various circuits. And then there are the tyres which do go into containers and which are shipped months in advance.

But the problem there is that ships are probably the largest "polluters" of the lot and in our quest to buy more and more goods from the Far East, the shipping companies are building more and more container ships. Just in the USA, in the last few days, there were more than 50 container ships queuing outside just two of their ports waiting to unload cargoes, some waiting not hours, not days but in some cases weeks to get alongside the gantries.

And then there are the F1 guests and the spectators. The vast majority of the spectators will have travelled by car, some for many hours to get to the circuits. As for the guests, a number will have been flown to the country where the GP takes place in their private jets and then, with other guest, transfer to the circuits by helicopter alongside some of the drivers. Did you know that the record for the most air traffic movements to take place on a single day into one place in the UK is held by Silverstone on a Sunday for a GP?

So, all in all, and I've only touched on a sliver of F1, Vettel is quite right. And there is also the road relevance which is very important to especially Renault and possibly VAG in the future, but also to a great extent Mercedes and Honda; they need to be seen to be behaving pretty ethically from a PR perception point of view.
All very true Mike, and the problem will be even worse with the 2022 calendar with races zig-zagging all over The World instead of moving far more sensibly from region to region. It's the age old problem of 'Do as I say and don't do as I do'. The powers that be are making a big hoo-ha about 'being green & reducing their carbon footprint' whereas in actual fact they are creating more problems.
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 04:31 (Ref:4078921)   #2258
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No matter what one's opinion is about what constitutes a green philosophy, F1 is far, far away from being green, and although I am a petrol head and very far from being a tree hugger, I also think that we do need to take climate change more seriously than at present.

F1 cars are not the real problem; the twenty cars only run for about 4 hours every other weekend. It's everything else that spews out all the nasty stuff to maintain having those cars going around every other weekend.

Whilst in Europe, we have goodness knows how many heavy goods trucks going from place to place, many of them stuffed with the portable gin palaces that F1 seems to have to have to entertain the hangers on and groupies, as well as decorating their pit garages which in reality is just for vanity's sake.

Meanwhile, for the fly away races, F1 requires about 4 or 5 747s to carry just what they cannot put in to containers and ship to the various circuits. And then there are the tyres which do go into containers and which are shipped months in advance.

But the problem there is that ships are probably the largest "polluters" of the lot and in our quest to buy more and more goods from the Far East, the shipping companies are building more and more container ships. Just in the USA, in the last few days, there were more than 50 container ships queuing outside just two of their ports waiting to unload cargoes, some waiting not hours, not days but in some cases weeks to get alongside the gantries.

And then there are the F1 guests and the spectators. The vast majority of the spectators will have travelled by car, some for many hours to get to the circuits. As for the guests, a number will have been flown to the country where the GP takes place in their private jets and then, with other guest, transfer to the circuits by helicopter alongside some of the drivers. Did you know that the record for the most air traffic movements to take place on a single day into one place in the UK is held by Silverstone on a Sunday for a GP?

So, all in all, and I've only touched on a sliver of F1, Vettel is quite right. And there is also the road relevance which is very important to especially Renault and possibly VAG in the future, but also to a great extent Mercedes and Honda; they need to be seen to be behaving pretty ethically from a PR perception point of view.
Yes, the background noise is huge but the headline is the F1 cars themselves even if they emit only a tiny fraction of the total emissions for a race meeting. I never realised so many 747 freighters were used, that is simply embarrassing to see all that for twenty race cars and F1 should be ashamed of itself in every respect.
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 08:00 (Ref:4078928)   #2259
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P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I wouldn't be too hard on ships playing a part in the world economy as they are, by a considerable margin,the most efficient way to move goods.Maybe its time to "encourage" fewer people to do their jobs from the circuit and remain at the factory.Now that the cars use fewer engines in a season that used to be the case for a single race weekend at least some of the stuff that used to be shipped no longer is.Maybe there is a good case for nudging the teams to achieve as much with a smaller pile of hardware.The real business of top level racers is to find a better way than the rest and if that means including a better use of resources and transport then they have the people and mindset to achieve the outcome.



I would still contend that one GP will cause a lot less pollution that a single weekend of British professional football.If you doubt the position then just add up the total number of spectators and then the cost of shipping players,officials,commentators,media crews and security staff.It also happens several dozen times a year.
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 08:32 (Ref:4078932)   #2260
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P38, it's all about the perception that cars are a dirty thing and they have to be got ridden of. However, there was some condemnation on the BBC website only yesterday for one football (soccer) team that flew by private plane just 100 miles for their match over this weekend.
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 08:37 (Ref:4078933)   #2261
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Yes, the background noise is huge but the headline is the F1 cars themselves even if they emit only a tiny fraction of the total emissions for a race meeting. I never realised so many 747 freighters were used, that is simply embarrassing to see all that for twenty race cars and F1 should be ashamed of itself in every respect.

And just one of them is solely for the TV cameras and production equipment that is required to film each GP. When it was first used after it was introduced by Mr E, it was named Baker's Village, so called because the first producer/director was a chap called Baker, as it took up so much space at each venue.
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 10:31 (Ref:4078945)   #2262
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Of course sometimes you can't help using those type of aircraft, but it does make you think that they need one just to get the TV equipment there. Maybe Bernie's idea wasn't the best, let's face it digital coverage never really took off did it? But hey, live and learn
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Old 18 Oct 2021, 14:27 (Ref:4078987)   #2263
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Maybe F1 could borrow local TV equipment.
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Old 22 Oct 2021, 01:12 (Ref:4079425)   #2264
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
No matter what one's opinion is about what constitutes a green philosophy, F1 is far, far away from being green, and although I am a petrol head and very far from being a tree hugger, I also think that we do need to take climate change more seriously than at present.

F1 cars are not the real problem; the twenty cars only run for about 4 hours every other weekend. It's everything else that spews out all the nasty stuff to maintain having those cars going around every other weekend.

Whilst in Europe, we have goodness knows how many heavy goods trucks going from place to place, many of them stuffed with the portable gin palaces that F1 seems to have to have to entertain the hangers on and groupies, as well as decorating their pit garages which in reality is just for vanity's sake.

Meanwhile, for the fly away races, F1 requires about 4 or 5 747s to carry just what they cannot put in to containers and ship to the various circuits. And then there are the tyres which do go into containers and which are shipped months in advance.

But the problem there is that ships are probably the largest "polluters" of the lot and in our quest to buy more and more goods from the Far East, the shipping companies are building more and more container ships. Just in the USA, in the last few days, there were more than 50 container ships queuing outside just two of their ports waiting to unload cargoes, some waiting not hours, not days but in some cases weeks to get alongside the gantries.

And then there are the F1 guests and the spectators. The vast majority of the spectators will have travelled by car, some for many hours to get to the circuits. As for the guests, a number will have been flown to the country where the GP takes place in their private jets and then, with other guest, transfer to the circuits by helicopter alongside some of the drivers. Did you know that the record for the most air traffic movements to take place on a single day into one place in the UK is held by Silverstone on a Sunday for a GP?

So, all in all, and I've only touched on a sliver of F1, Vettel is quite right. And there is also the road relevance which is very important to especially Renault and possibly VAG in the future, but also to a great extent Mercedes and Honda; they need to be seen to be behaving pretty ethically from a PR perception point of view.
The real answer to all this is to put it in a real life perspective.
As long as you focus on the numbers they can be manipulated (and are ) to produce fear and panic for political purposes and to provide a narrative that continually bombards people to believe that everything is going to collapse within the next decade or two.

The fact is it is not going to happen like that.
Putting things in perspective realistically means looking at the predictions in terms of real movement over the last decade and then comparing that with the real change from 50years and 100 years ago. The movement of predicted change suddenly becomes quite small but they don't use that because they are trying to get people to change and take hold of what they believe is a concern.

But what currently is happening in major industrial nations? Either industries that were major producers 50 years ago have declined or advanced in technology. Or some nations continue to spew at crazy rates with no no change.

How much is the total amount produced by F1 transport use in the aviation sector against the total of freight and passenger movement in aviation?
Fractional. Less than 0.0001 of of one percent.
That is less than 1/10000 of one percent (1 millionth) of all the the tons produced in aviation.
I know its about perception but until you start getting real about it the activists will carry the day with distortion of the real basic causes.

A teenage activist started a campaign against cows in a dairy farming nation of only 5 million people producing methane by its dairy cows.
Until the farmers pointed out that the methane produced by wild animals in Africa, and by the amount of methane in her home nation far exceeded by many times the amount of methane produced by dairy cows in one small nation. The campaign stopped immediately.

Truth has to come to the fore and be expressed in global terms before you will have ay real balance in the arguments and its is a global problem that has to be done globally with all nations taking an equal responsibility to clean up its own garden. Allowing nations to continue trading off its spillage by buying and planting forests in far off nations to buy carbon credits and dim their consciences will not change anything.
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Old 26 Oct 2021, 07:40 (Ref:4080088)   #2265
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Going back to the actual mundane racing.

Time to get rid of sausage kerbs once and forever.

Eaton suffers compression fracture of lower back after running over COTA sausage kerb.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/moto...?ocid=msedgntp
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