2008 Australian Sports & GT Championship

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by Simon S

seems a shame that all the formats here seem to be geared towards single driver entries.... IMHO that's a mistake for a GT type format.

Intermarque is a two driver format no?

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Intermarque is a two driver format no?

I think that is right but the Pirelli Grand Turismo says it isn't, the GT series only has sprint rounds this year for the championship (Sandown, if it happens again, will be a non championship round) and Carrera Cup doesn't have endurance races.

I agree with Simon S that it is a shame there is not more endurance racing with co-driver possibility in the various GT events. Have a look at the grid sizes for the production sports car 1 hour races compared to the sprint races and its not hard to see where competitor interest lies.

[racer69]

Add to the that the fact that the cars in GT racing aren't really conducive to sprint racing.

How many people are going to hang it all out in do-or-die sprint race battles in a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Aston Martin considering the repair bills.

Makes the series two-driver/one or two hour races, plus they would be easier to package together for the post-produced TV.

[Matthew Ronke]

Originally Posted by racer69

Add to the that the fact that the cars in GT racing aren't really conducive to sprint racing.

How many people are going to hang it all out in do-or-die sprint race battles in a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Aston Martin considering the repair bills.

Makes the series two-driver/one or two hour races, plus they would be easier to package together for the post-produced TV.

The answer is in what you just stated. How many people are going to let someone driver their $300K to $600K car. If its bent by the owner they can live with it, If its bent by someone else then they have to live with it.

To-date not many people have been willing to lend then machinery for someone else to drive. People in production sports are more happier because the obviously can live with the risk of losing their $50k to $100k car.

There are people that will risk their expensive machinery to others but not enought to make it work.

[Senna05]

To answer all above all, what promoter is going to let 4 competitve cars get 2-3 laps ahead over an hour or two? What series is going to give one championship an hour or two at the expense of other categories?

GT would be AMAZING over an hour or 2. But it doesn't have the "power" at the moment to do this.

MAYBE I am wrong. But for now, I think the sprints are the way to go, even if only for 08.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Senna05

To answer all above all, what promoter is going to let 4 competitve cars get 2-3 laps ahead over an hour or two? What series is going to give one championship an hour or two at the expense of other categories?

GT would be AMAZING over an hour or 2. But it doesn't have the "power" at the moment to do this.

MAYBE I am wrong. But for now, I think the sprints are the way to go, even if only for 08.

The three sprint races in the GT's would add up to an hour all up anyway, it would just be getting it all done in the one go.

Then again i've always preferred single races (or at least a preliminary & a final) when it comes to any category on the bill

[Senna05]

Don't get me wrong, I do too. But on the Shannons series, is there space for 1 hour races with the crowds? All the championships involved have some backmarkers that would simply make it boring.

I think the way they have it will work until the GT's have some gun drivers and cars in it to bolster whats already there. I don't want to see 8 races, with the 430/Gallardo running from the porsches and then 360's and then more porsches and the rest.

1 hour races with a compulsary stop. Or maybe not - seeing a gun car go for glory to have to stop for tryes might make the race interesting, with the little lotus/better porsche's not having to stop?

You guys tell me - do I have it wrong?

[davelise]

I think they should all be 1hr minimim. That's what GT is all about in Europe, US and Japan.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

The answer is in what you just stated. How many people are going to let someone driver their $300K to $600K car. If its bent by the owner they can live with it, If its bent by someone else then they have to live with it.

To-date not many people have been willing to lend then machinery for someone else to drive. People in production sports are more happier because the obviously can live with the risk of losing their $50k to $100k car.

There are people that will risk their expensive machinery to others but not enought to make it work.

I think you will find the vast majority of driver/owners in GT are happy to share their car with someone who they can learn from. John Kaias was happy to have Will Davison, John Teulan and Steven Johnson, Angelo Lazaris and Warren Luff, Ian Palmer and Paul Stokell, Sven Burchatz and David Reynolds, Ted Huglin and Allan/Craig Baird and even a few of the new comers to GT who were at Sandown did exceptionally well partly off the back of the more experienced co driver they had on board. I recognise there were a few regulars who didn't compete at Sandown but I would be surprised if any of those were not there because they did not want to share their car with a co driver.

I can see where it might become an issue where a seeded driver such as Bryce/Allan/David have to find an unseeded co driver who by definition should be a less experienced driver, but even they had co drivers who were more than capable.

From my perspective, having the chance to drive with people like Scott Bargwanna and Mike Reedy has been invaluable and has been the single biggest factor in any driving improvements I have been able to make so I am all for having events that involve a co-driver. Yes, I could go and do some test days with them to get that benefit but the reality for me is that in 2007 I did not manage to find time/money to do one day of testing/practice outside of the official practice day at each of the 8 rounds.

[Matthew Ronke]

And that is all valid Peter and excellent that you get the opportunity. My last line said that there are people willing but not enough to make it work. The biggest race of the year for GT (Sandown) had the smallest entry list. I was putting it down to the two driver syndrome which I have seen happen in the past. If people believe there were other reasons for the less than expected Entry numbers at Sandown I would be interested to hear your thoughts. People can PM me if you don’t want them public.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke

And that is all valid Peter and excellent that you get the opportunity. My last line said that there are people willing but not enough to make it work. The biggest race of the year for GT (Sandown) had the smallest entry list. I was putting it down to the two driver syndrome which I have seen happen in the past. If people believe there were other reasons for the less than expected Entry numbers at Sandown I would be interested to hear your thoughts. People can PM me if you don’t want them public.

Purely speculation on my part but having (now) seen what it costs to get a car prepped for a 500km event, I would guess some people who have seen what it costs to get ready will have baulked at that.

I know for one or two the cost/hassle of fitting a dry brake system was a deterrent. There were also a few cases of existing series drivers teaming up which has the same effect on numbers as losing an entrant.

[peterelise]

Originally Posted by Senna05

1 hour races with a compulsary stop. Or maybe not - seeing a gun car go for glory to have to stop for tryes might make the race interesting, with the little lotus/better porsche's not having to stop?

You guys tell me - do I have it wrong?

Now you're talking although I don't think a 1 hour race is long enough to show up any differences in strategy.

When we saw the regs for Sandown we were extremely disappointed to see that any advantage the Lotus had in fuel consumption and tyre and brake wear was taken away with a requirement for 3 compulsory stops of 90 secs each and the fact that there was no limit on tyre usage.

As it turned out, both Lotuses experienced other issues on the day and my car ended up pitting more times than the minimum so the regs had no effect on our outcome anyway.

[RS500]

Originally Posted by peterelise

Purely speculation on my part but having (now) seen what it costs to get a car prepped for a 500km event, I would guess some people who have seen what it costs to get ready will have baulked at that.

I know for one or two the cost/hassle of fitting a dry brake system was a deterrent. There were also a few cases of existing series drivers teaming up which has the same effect on numbers as losing an entrant.

I heard from a few of the drivers (not competing) on the Saturday about the extra costs involved. like you said in preparing the car and for the smaller teams to purchase the fueling systems for 1 event of the year was a waste of time and money.

[noaxetogrind]

GT website has entry list for A1GP GT race up. Small field of 15 but looks like we could still see some close racing at the front.

Simonsen in 430
Baird in 360GT
Washinton in Lambo

Add to that two more Lambos, an Aston, two more 430s and a 360, five GT3s and a Lotus and you have the field.

[Bullett]

2 drop outs already!

[Simon S]

If your really wanting to get into stratigic racing etc, then 2 hours really is the bear minimum time, and preffereably 3-4 hours, this is were fuel and tyre life become important, along with driver parings..

this is what makes it interesting, 1 hour sprints are all very well, but they are all about single car and driver performance, thus is the Ferarri (or ANO) car is faster in outright pace, it's always going to win (as every car can do 1Hour on fuel and tyres no matter what).

that's OK, if this is what you want, however, to my mind, this is NOT GT racing...

Really not convinced about the arguement against second drivers, most of the guys I kno with GT cars are not at all precious about them, they are race cars, not pose mobiles....

most of the guys (as Perter has said) are more than happy to share their cars if for no other reason that it get's them higher up the grids and they have data to learn from them. Just look at how much better Hector Lester was at the end of 2007 compared to the start? the same can be said for Chritian Nearcos Chris Niarchos in 2006 etc etc.

[Belly13]

If anyone has any information about the round at Eastern Creek this weekend, such as an event schedule or an entry list for any other categories, it would be much appreciated if you could PM me or post them in this thread.
Thanks.

[Richard Craill]

If anyone has any information about the round at Eastern Creek this weekend, such as an event schedule or an entry list for any other categories, it would be much appreciated if you could PM me or post them in this thread.
Thanks.

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...47#post2115147

[davelise]

Good luck to all competing. Looks like it may be a wet weekend.

[cptkablamo]

Yep good luck to you all...it seems not many of you came out for the practice at the lunch time session...little greasy I am guessing...

[noaxetogrind]

Although some blistering times from the front runners in P2. 1 32.2 for simonsen and 1 32.7 for kaias in the Aston are both very impressive. Given the rain, I'm guessing the track wasn't well rubbered up either?

[Falcadore]

9 cars? What happenned? Has the series priced itself beyond its own market? Too many alternative series?

No wonder that were desperate to get 997s onto the grid.

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

9 cars? What happenned? Has the series priced itself beyond its own market? Too many alternative series?

No wonder that were desperate to get 997s onto the grid.

Don't think its about pricing, entry fees haven't changed much. But the 996s are conspicuous by their absence and you only need to look at qualifying times to see why. They are no longer competitive. The 997s would help but hard to see even them competing with Alan doing a 1 31.5 in qualifying. What is the quickest a 997 cup car has done in carrera cup?

[Buckshot]

Every year I hold my breath for this series that it's gonna do well and scrape together a decent field, looks like once again we're all gonna be disappointed.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

Don't think its about pricing, entry fees haven't changed much.

The price of being competitive, not the price of completing the paperwork.