Turn 1 run off at PI

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Rachel Richards

I was astounded to read of a reference to Gregg Hansford's fatal crash in the McConky press blurb.

As a witness to Hansfords fatal collision between Turns 1 & 2 way back in 1995 I agree with Rachel on this one it had nothing to do with the gravel trap on the other side of the track, in fact the gravel trap may not even have been built yet back then.

[rik]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Having watched it about 50 times, (and retro's screen caps back it up) the gap between cams car and the white line gets BIGGER, meaning HE was turning away from the grass (towards owen), the track didn't narrow for ages after that. Owen was heading back to the other side of the track, so the contact is all on cam.

Have you driven around phillip island before? Silver races at PI and knows what he's talking about. There is no way to make turn one at anywhere near normal race speed from where Owen had his car positioned that far to the wrong side of the track.

Take a look at the lines the BottleO and Bundy car use in from of the incident or the line of the following Vodofone car takes.

There would have had to be some extremely aggressive driving down the straight that is not shown on the CH7 footage for them to be so far to the wrong side of the track at turn one. Wish we could see the in-car footage or something!!!

[Axeman444]

so if Owen couldn't make the turn at his speed, from his position, how was Cam going to make it when he was going even faster, and further to the right...?????

no disrespect to people racing there, but the footage shows Owen's car is NOT getting closer to the right hand side of the track throughout the footage available, so i do not know what basis you are discussing that Owen was in the wrong. If he lead onto the straight, he has every right to take that line all the way down

[GTRMagic]

Has there been any response to this from CAMS? It seems that as ASN, who licenced the PI track, that there should be some kind of review process in place after a serious incident to investigate and evaluate alternatives

Or do they only do this when a police inquiry demands it?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Has there been any response to this from CAMS? It seems that as ASN, who licenced the PI track, that there should be some kind of review process in place after a serious incident to investigate and evaluate alternatives

Or do they only do this when a police inquiry demands it?

I may be a little presumptive here, but I think CAMS are like the government, they only launch a major investigation after a fatal or injury accident. If everyone walks away unhurt, then it's "no harm, no foul, play on."

[GTRMagic]

I get the same feeling, but it doesnt make it right!

It is interesting that the circuit's owner has a much publicised "Vision ZERO" strategy...


How does that fit here?

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by PVDA

As a witness to Hansfords fatal collision between Turns 1 & 2 way back in 1995 I agree with Rachel on this one it had nothing to do with the gravel trap on the other side of the track, in fact the gravel trap may not even have been built yet back then.

what exactly happened??? was there any footage of this tragic event?

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by rik

Have you driven around phillip island before? Silver races at PI and knows what he's talking about. There is no way to make turn one at anywhere near normal race speed from where Owen had his car positioned that far to the wrong side of the track.

Take a look at the lines the BottleO and Bundy car use in from of the incident or the line of the following Vodofone car takes.

There would have had to be some extremely aggressive driving down the straight that is not shown on the CH7 footage for them to be so far to the wrong side of the track at turn one. Wish we could see the in-car footage or something!!!

Considering it WAS reviewed by the people who can see all the incar footage, leads me to believe he did nothing wrong.

Your right, i havn't been to Phillip Island, however i have eyes, and with todays technology its pretty obvious what happened there. CAm swears black and blue that Owen was STILL moving right when the contact happened. This is bull****, if a gap is getting bigger on one side of the track, that means the car is moving to the other side.....thats just the way physics work (on the straight) i'm sorry.

[smokin'joe]

did Cam's car have any suspension/tyre damage before the contact??
it's very easy for him to blame Owen for the contact, as we all know ALL drivers are perfect!!

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Bevan-L

what exactly happened??? was there any footage of this tragic event?

Hansford came around turn 1 driving a front wheel drive Mondeo on (I think) the 2nd lap of a 2 litre Touring Car race and the back stepped out on him, he didn't catch it and he went nose first into the earth filled tyre wall on the drivers right betwen Turns 1 & 2.

The car then bounced back out onto the track** and was hit plumb in the drivers door by a following race car.

There is footage from outside the car as well as a rearward facing dash mounted camera but it was never released publicly, they did show the initial loss of control from an in car camera on Phil Ward's car (now of Aussie Racer fame) to quash rumours that were doing the rounds that Ward had punted him off which wasn't the case.

** If the track had concrete walls instead of tyres on the perimeter consensus is the car would've hit the wall and slid along it towards Turn 2 and not bounce back out onto the track with tragic results.

There is a thread discussing this topic from a few years ago if you want to search for it as going any further would step way over the Off Topic line....

[retro]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

did Cam's car have any suspension/tyre damage before the contact??
it's very easy for him to blame Owen for the contact, as we all know ALL drivers are perfect!!

I've been going over the YouTube footage as that's all I have...and I'm looking at Owens right hand a fraction of a second before the cars hit.

I'm not sure what to make of it as it's not clear but there is a movement.

Any opinions...?

[smokin'joe]

Originally Posted by retro

I've been going over the YouTube footage as that's all I have...and I'm looking at Owens right hand a fraction of a second before the cars hit.

I'm not sure what to make of it as it's not clear but there is a movement.

Any opinions...?

do you have a link?? the youtube link on P1 is at impact, not before.

[retro]

Originally Posted by smokin'joe

do you have a link?? the youtube link on P1 is at impact, not before.

Be warned it's not very clear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uypk5xkzwZ4

[Jacob Black]

I think it's quite clear, there was room on the inside of McConville, he has simply misjudged the distance and driven up over the back wheel of Owen.

Having said that, Owen's decision to be off the racing line was not the right one, and I'm surprised he got away with it for as long as he did, I'd not have been blocking that early in the race in his position.

Racing incident is a fair decision in my book.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

I think it's quite clear, there was room on the inside of McConville, he has simply misjudged the distance and driven up over the back wheel of Owen.

Having said that, Owen's decision to be off the racing line was not the right one, and I'm surprised he got away with it for as long as he did, I'd not have been blocking that early in the race in his position.

Racing incident is a fair decision in my book.

I do not want to labour the point-- but-- you are doing 280 plus kmh at the point and you need to be a considerable distance to the left for that corner --Owen had no business being that far to the right.His sole purpose was to stop McConville going past and that is called blocking.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I do not want to labour the point-- but-- you are doing 280 plus kmh at the point and you need to be a considerable distance to the left for that corner --Owen had no business being that far to the right.His sole purpose was to stop McConville going past and that is called blocking.

No-one said he wasn't blocking.
All people are saying is McConville his Owens car, by turning into him.

You just proved the point, saying you need to be alot further left to make the corner at that speed, so Cam was going of either way.

[Jacob Black]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I do not want to labour the point-- but-- you are doing 280 plus kmh at the point and you need to be a considerable distance to the left for that corner --Owen had no business being that far to the right.His sole purpose was to stop McConville going past and that is called blocking.

I'm not sure if you like reading or not, but maybe you could check out my second paragraph... you know... the one where I say Owen was blocking and shouldn't have been off line....

What he wasn't doing, was still moving across when the contact occurred, the two hit because Cam misjudged the position of his car, there was still a lot of room to Cam's inside, and Owen has stopped moving across. The collision need not have happened if a: Owen hadn't been needlessly blocking, and b: Cam hadn't have misjudged the distance.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I do not want to labour the point-- but-- you are doing 280 plus kmh at the point and you need to be a considerable distance to the left for that corner --Owen had no business being that far to the right.His sole purpose was to stop McConville going past and that is called blocking.

Blocking is weaving from side to side and actually blocking the path of another car or driving down the inside of the track into corners and blocking overtaking opportunities. Making it hard for another car to get around but still leaving them some room? I reckon that'd be racing myself.

[Jacob Black]

It was a blocking manouvre, there is no other reason to deviate from the regular racing line, and Owen's intent was to prevent a pass. It's blocking, pure and simple, but thats a moot point, the fact is, there was still enough room for the BOC car down the inside, and the gap wasn't getting smaller, it remained constant, if he had of used that room, no contact would have occured.

[PVDA]

This thread was created to discuss the run off area at Turn 1 not what caused McConville to end up there in the first place.

[Jacob Black]

woops, sorry PVDA, was just responding to Silver.

In fairness though, the two are closely enough related to be interlinked.

[johnh875]

Did anyone see the in-car footage from Besnard's car on V8XTRA? Great work by Bezzy to spot the car coming and avoid it, very sobering stuff.

[retro]

[PVDA]

YouTube is your friend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8iDIg5XfU

Now, has this footage increased the need to do something cos if Bezzy hadn't thrown out the anchor, stuck his feet through the floor (Fred Flintstone style) and hit the brakes it could've got very ugly.

[Lukin]

The guy in the GRM car has some nerves, he was back at full throttle as soon as the BJR cleared, no second thought.