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Old 13 Jul 2005, 15:30 (Ref:1354721)   #51
dtype38
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Yeh, but by then it'll be winter rebuild time again, and I haven't built up enough brownie points to cover the new clutch and flywheel I just bought yet!! I don't even dare mention that I have to get all my valve guides replaced and the seats recut. And no, she wouldn't know what I was talking about, but she sure as hell knows that "this is gonna cost" language regardless of how casually I deliver the line
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Old 14 Jul 2005, 07:01 (Ref:1355203)   #52
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Originally Posted by dtype38
Hmmmmm.... my car doesn't even sit at the correct ride height if I've just lowered off a trolley jack. The camber change as the suspension settles means that I have to roll the thing backwards and forward a bit to get the tyres to spread and allow it to settle to the correct ride height. I very much doubt that I would get sensible corner weight measurements dropping it off a jack onto the middle of a scale.

Perhaps some form of "tyre ramp" with a little cut-away in it just over the middle of the set of scales
get yourself 8 pieces of veneered chipboard, melamine preferably, about 7-8 inches square and heavily grease one side of half of them, put them together and you have 4 turntables, put them on your scales,let the car down your suspension should settle nicely now if you work the steering/ push pull the wheels about.

that system works very well for me on 700-900 kg cars (not tried it on anything heavier
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Old 14 Jul 2005, 11:33 (Ref:1355326)   #53
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I have a Pace type cornerweight gauge. If anyone in the Hertford/Uxbridge/Basildon area (long story) ever wants to rent it for very reasonable rates please feel free to contact me.
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Old 14 Jul 2005, 17:53 (Ref:1355591)   #54
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Blimey, you're spreading yourself about these days!
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 17:04 (Ref:1356394)   #55
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Originally Posted by dtype38
Chris... thanks for that, and yes I've seriously considered buying one of those and making three dummies (very light wallet). My only concerns about scales that aren't specifically desiged for doing corner weights were: could it take rolling 275kg on from an edge, and, could it take a bit of oveload without damage. I emailed them and asked but didn't get a response.
I picked up on this thread from our web site statistics and felt i would try to assist you. In our defense it would appear that we did not receive your message and would obviously apologise for this.

I personally have over 15 years of experience with this subject as i have sold the majority of corner weight sets to the F1 industry and the FIA. And we continue to sell scales and load cells to the motor industry.

The best sets of scales for corner weights are the most expensive as they are designed specifically to allow for high edge loads, overload, dynamic forces and general abuse by the engineers.

However, lower cost units can be used, but at a cost. They are cheap for a reason; they don't like abuse and in this case will not take the wheels driving onto them. This said you can obviously jack the wheel and slide the scale under. Each pad has four load cells inside the base; if the scale has a capacity of 300kg then each load cell is likely to have a capacity of 75kg. So rolling on to a leading edge gives you an initial capacity of 150kg + overload.

You may also find that the scales will be affected by the position of the wheel, for the most accurate reading the centre line of the wheels axle must align with the centre line of the scale and the centre line of the tyre must again be in the centre: plus the suspension must be relaxed as you can get camber effects causing load errors. But then if you aren’t F1 these may not be critical to you.

I trust this is helpful and I haven’t gone on too much, if you have any questions please do not hesitate to drop me a line, i will be only to pleased to assist.

Robert Taylor E-mail
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Old 15 Jul 2005, 19:29 (Ref:1356473)   #56
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inscale is right, not sure anyone else mentioned above, to jump on the car a bit to settle it out before u do anything!

notice how he didnt say any prices.. lol..
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 08:15 (Ref:1356685)   #57
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Originally Posted by THR
inscale is right, not sure anyone else mentioned above, to jump on the car a bit to settle it out before u do anything!

notice how he didnt say any prices.. lol..
Basically i didn't give prices because they are available on our web site www.inscale-scales.co.uk as some people have already visited.

For those that have not, the lowest priced unit at 300kg is the EOB300K100 at £119.00 + VAT, prices then range up from this. The next unit from the DE range is £139.00 + VAT. A full set as used by F1 can cost up to £8000.00 new.
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 13:24 (Ref:1356808)   #58
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Inscale... many thanks for your full reply. As I suspected, there isn't really a cheap solution to measuring corner weights properly, and trying to do it cheaply involves a great deal of effort and ingenuity to avoid damaging the scales.

Don't suppose you do a 600kg scale?
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 14:06 (Ref:1356827)   #59
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Originally Posted by dtype38
Inscale... many thanks for your full reply. As I suspected, there isn't really a cheap solution to measuring corner weights properly, and trying to do it cheaply involves a great deal of effort and ingenuity to avoid damaging the scales.

Don't suppose you do a 600kg scale?
Yes we do, we even do them big enough to drive a Smart car on!
Prices depend on the size required, but generally start at £700 + VAT up to £1870.00 + VAT
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Old 16 Jul 2005, 22:10 (Ref:1357015)   #60
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....but some of us don't have a spare £700-£800 for such things. Any thoughts?
Seems that was about where I came in half way down page three! Maybe I should just accept that I'll have to write a really nice begging letter to Santa this year so that we can stop talking about the price of scales and get back to the importance of corner weight setup
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2471629)   #61
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I just read the thread but I don't seem to be able to answer this question myself...

Could I just get 2 cheap bathroom scales, place the front wheels on them and jack up the rear in the center, adjust the pushrods so the scales indicate evenly, then repeat the same at the rear with the front jacked up? It's a single seater with the driver in the center line so the regular 150 kg scales would suffice. Am I right in assuming that this method would be less sensitive to an uneven floor?
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:54 (Ref:2471648)   #62
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According to Fred Phuns book how to make your car handle yes you could almost but it would have to be a light car and you would need scales at each end as the weight would be incorrect with one end jacked up on the scales.
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Old 29 May 2009, 22:53 (Ref:2471890)   #63
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According to Fred Phuns book how to make your car handle yes you could almost but it would have to be a light car and you would need scales at each end as the weight would be incorrect with one end jacked up on the scales.
I don't think Fred got it quite right. The scales need to be very level at the top surface and they need to be pre-loaded by some weight before the car goes on them. The opposite end needs to be on two platforms that are exactly the same height as the other end. Weigh one end, weigh the other, then turn the whole thing 90 degrees and repeat. It will obviously make things easier if the floor is near enough to level also.
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Old 30 May 2009, 09:20 (Ref:2472031)   #64
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I must say I have never tried it but a friend of mine made up some very heavyweight guages with one of those units off a conventional hook under wheel corner weight guage and it seemed to work well but took a while to set up next time I will try to talk him in to lending me his digital guages, much easier!
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Old 30 May 2009, 10:12 (Ref:2472061)   #65
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Look ma, no scales!

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=corner+weight
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Old 1 Jun 2009, 12:45 (Ref:2473337)   #66
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We took a massive step backwards on our saloon hillclimber when we entrusted the car to a professional to set it up for us.

Like a complete tawt he set it up like a single seater and we chased our tails for years wondering where the speed in the car had gone.

Yes - I know - 0 out of 10 for driver sensitivity but am only a keen amateur and couldn't work out why the car felt different.

So we bought one of those Pace lever jobs to try to get things back where they should be - just an utter nightmare.

Try as we might we couldn't get anywhere - the readings we got were just perverse, continually, and not repeatable either.

Anyone got any tips on using these type of scales - or are they acknowledged to be rubbish??
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Old 1 Jun 2009, 13:10 (Ref:2473356)   #67
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Although you wont get 100% repeatability with the lever type I have found that they're not that bad.
Use a thin piece of tin under the tyre and take the reading when it will just pull out.
Take about half a dozen readings and average them out to get somewhere near the final figure.
Obviously you need a pretty level base and you need the driver in place or weights on the seat.
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Old 1 Jun 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2473397)   #68
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Although you wont get 100% repeatability with the lever type I have found that they're not that bad.
Use a thin piece of tin under the tyre and take the reading when it will just pull out.
Take about half a dozen readings and average them out to get somewhere near the final figure.
Obviously you need a pretty level base and you need the driver in place or weights on the seat.
As Gordon says above...
We used to use a thin steel rule under the tyres using the similar 'feel' technique that you use with feeler gauges setting tappets. take four or five readings and make an average, but with experience, the 'feel' will come and you'll become consistent.
It is essential that the floor is level, plus, make sure your tyre pressures are correct, a simple thing like un-even pressures will cock-up the 'feel' completely!
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Old 2 Jun 2009, 04:52 (Ref:2473795)   #69
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Jonners - I tried a lever gauge on my car but failed completely. The problem was that I use deep profile tyres at quite low pressure so the tyres are quite squished onto the ground (please excuse the technical jargon). That meant I had to lift the hub up by something like 15-20mm to get the tread clear of the ground, putting significantly more weight on the corner I was lifting and the opposite corner. Checking all four that way gave a weight quite a bit more than the actual car!

Might work for stiff low profile tyres, but I gave up and bought corner weight scales.
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Old 2 Jun 2009, 08:08 (Ref:2473856)   #70
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It is true that if you have a lot of sidewall flex (as on high profile tyres) it can be more difficult. The way to get round this is to double the tyre pressure all round (as long as you don't forget to let them down)
Dont forget that the actual reading on these type of corner weight scales in lbs/kg is really meaningless and can only be used as a comparison with the other corner.
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Old 2 Jun 2009, 12:52 (Ref:2473998)   #71
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some good pearls of wisdom there - thanks to all

we used thin sheets of acetate under the tyres but what has been said makes me wonder whether something stiffer would give better feel and therefore better repeatability (just re-read that - sounds like Clare Rayner....)

also, being a road legal hillclimber rather than a trailer queen racer there's a lot of droop on our car and the tyres are quite high profile

another point - the chap we did this with reminded me that the floor we used was level but not perfectly flat as it had zillions of tiny dimples

time to have another go!!
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Old 3 Jun 2009, 14:07 (Ref:2474729)   #72
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Has anyone had success with bathroom scales? Where can you get dial ones (not digital - they turn off), that go up to 150KG (or higher) ? Surely given the increase in obesity in this country, there must be demand for heavier duty scales?

I guess as long as you calibrate the scales relative to each other, you should get a half decent result.

The problem I have heard with the lever ones is that you only do one wheel at a time, so its a very long iterative process narrowing the correct settings down (i.e you cannot see all wheel weights at same time, so do one, then another and the first has now moved out again, so you have to do each wheel multiple times as you move round the car)



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Old 3 Jun 2009, 23:52 (Ref:2475036)   #73
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Originally Posted by jedrinck View Post
Could I just get 2 cheap bathroom scales, place the front wheels on them and jack up the rear in the center, adjust the pushrods so the scales indicate evenly, then repeat the same at the rear with the front jacked up? It's a single seater with the driver in the center line so the regular 150 kg scales would suffice. Am I right in assuming that this method would be less sensitive to an uneven floor?
No, all that will happen when you adjust the pushrods (spring seats or whatever) is that the ride height on that corner will change, the weights will remain the same.

You can only measure the corner weights with all four wheels on the ground, which is because corner weights are very dependant on the diagonal axes, i.e. LF weight is very influenced by RR weight, and RF very influenced by LR. Of course LF is also affected RF and LR by RR as well as RF by RR and LF by LR...
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Old 4 Jun 2009, 08:36 (Ref:2475189)   #74
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No, all that will happen when you adjust the pushrods (spring seats or whatever) is that the ride height on that corner will change, the weights will remain the same.

You can only measure the corner weights with all four wheels on the ground, which is because corner weights are very dependent on the diagonal axes, i.e. LF weight is very influenced by RR weight, and RF very influenced by LR. Of course LF is also affected RF and LR by RR as well as RF by RR and LF by LR...
You would need 4 bathroom scales, not 2.....
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Old 4 Jun 2009, 20:53 (Ref:2475541)   #75
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Right, I see. I noticed one can get 4 cheap bathroom scales for the morbidly obese (up to 150kg) for less than 50 Euros on ebay. I wonder if it would be difficult to modify them so that they don't turn off after a minute or so. I think they give just one reading once the obese person succeeds at standing still for a couple of seconds and then turn off.
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