Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars. > New Zealand Motor Racing

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9 Sep 2015, 01:02 (Ref:3572598)   #51
mountainstar
Veteran
 
mountainstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
United States
Posts: 6,884
mountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmountainstar should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I haven't paid attention for months but it all sounds good and hopefully is well received.
mountainstar is offline  
__________________
Wolverines!
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2015, 21:42 (Ref:3573012)   #52
GHOGH
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
nz
Posts: 299
GHOGH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HRC Events website and dates.
http://www.hrcevents.co.nz/events.php
GHOGH is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Sep 2015, 09:34 (Ref:3574362)   #53
Blackpearl
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 342
Blackpearl is a back marker
Dunlops on all cars, hankook must be a ****ed off.
Blackpearl is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Sep 2015, 11:02 (Ref:3574368)   #54
drftin
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 25
drftin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and the drivers too
more cost, less grip, more wear. sounds like a great idea (assuming what i've heard is right)
drftin is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Sep 2015, 22:55 (Ref:3574497)   #55
adbutler
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2012
New Zealand
Waikuku Beach, Canterbury, NZ
Posts: 200
adbutler should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackpearl View Post
Dunlops on all cars, hankook must be a ****ed off.
What's the reasoning behind this??? I thought the Hankook's were the better tyre and if they had to go with either Dunlop or Hankook the Hankook's were the logical choice.
adbutler is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 01:18 (Ref:3574515)   #56
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by adbutler View Post
What's the reasoning behind this??? I thought the Hankook's were the better tyre and if they had to go with either Dunlop or Hankook the Hankook's were the logical choice.
It'll be the usual - unless the drivers/team owners got to vote, the decision would have been made for them by Powers That Still Be who have someone else's hand in their back pockets. Or whoever uttered the loudest threat maybe...
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 01:45 (Ref:3574519)   #57
adbutler
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2012
New Zealand
Waikuku Beach, Canterbury, NZ
Posts: 200
adbutler should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
It'll be the usual - unless the drivers/team owners got to vote, the decision would have been made for them by Powers That Still Be who have someone else's hand in their back pockets. Or whoever uttered the loudest threat maybe...
It's a shame if that's the case. The Hankook tyre appeared to get a lot of praise from the various drivers including the V8SC drivers.
adbutler is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 03:17 (Ref:3574531)   #58
NZSTfan
Veteran
 
NZSTfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
New Zealand
car heaven
Posts: 1,366
NZSTfan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Is this for real? FFS if it is....The kook's are way better, everyone knows that.

So the Dunlop tyre that's touted, will it be a 260 or 280?

Loosing interest fast.........
NZSTfan is offline  
__________________
"You see, the problem with NZ is that we all think we are a poor Australia, when in all reality we are just a rich Fiji" - Owen Evans, April 2015.
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 03:34 (Ref:3574532)   #59
Mark Petch
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
Mark Petch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
It'll be the usual - unless the drivers/team owners got to vote, the decision would have been made for them by Powers That Still Be who have someone else's hand in their back pockets. Or whoever uttered the loudest threat maybe...
GB, nothing to do with "someone else's hand in their back pockets" or loudest threats etc, purely a commercial decision made by the joint venture board of NZ Touring cars, in the interest of being able to pay for TV, series management etc.

The Dunlop D14 tyre is the exact same tyre used by V8 Supercar's and as such, it might also appeal to some of the Australian V8 supercar brigade, that complain they can't get enough track time because of the tyre limitations the have to live with, as a Supertourer with the optional cable throttle is about the closest thing to an Australian supercar that available to race at a ver affordable cost.

Hankook may be a superior tyre, and I believe it is, but at least everybody will be on the same tyre this year and thats a big plus in itself.

Cheers,

Mark.
Mark Petch is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 04:22 (Ref:3574540)   #60
adbutler
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2012
New Zealand
Waikuku Beach, Canterbury, NZ
Posts: 200
adbutler should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petch View Post
GB, nothing to do with "someone else's hand in their back pockets" or loudest threats etc, purely a commercial decision made by the joint venture board of NZ Touring cars, in the interest of being able to pay for TV, series management etc.

The Dunlop D14 tyre is the exact same tyre used by V8 Supercar's and as such, it might also appeal to some of the Australian V8 supercar brigade, that complain they can't get enough track time because of the tyre limitations the have to live with, as a Supertourer with the optional cable throttle is about the closest thing to an Australian supercar that available to race at a ver affordable cost.

Hankook may be a superior tyre, and I believe it is, but at least everybody will be on the same tyre this year and thats a big plus in itself.

Cheers,

Mark.
Cheers Mark.
adbutler is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 08:17 (Ref:3574569)   #61
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Thanks Mark, glad to be proven wrong in this case. The Dunnies are a bit stickier are they not but go off more quickly?
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 18 Sep 2015, 20:24 (Ref:3574711)   #62
Mark Petch
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
Mark Petch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Thanks Mark, glad to be proven wrong in this case. The Dunnies are a bit stickier are they not but go off more quickly?
GB, I will reserve judgement on the Dunlop tyre's that we will use this season until we have first hand experience with them.
Mark Petch is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 08:14 (Ref:3575958)   #63
Blackpearl
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 342
Blackpearl is a back marker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petch View Post
GB, I will reserve judgement on the Dunlop tyre's that we will use this season until we have first hand experience with them.
Mark, is it true and youwill know this that there will be 6 v8st competing.
Blackpearl is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 09:18 (Ref:3575965)   #64
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Does anyone know how many cars there will be in total this season? I have seen the IMS transporter a bit of late, they seem fully committed to GT's now, is that right?
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 09:51 (Ref:3575969)   #65
Mark Petch
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
Mark Petch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Does anyone know how many cars there will be in total this season? I have seen the IMS transporter a bit of late, they seem fully committed to GT's now, is that right?
Hi GB,

I am guessing between all 3 V8 Touring car class's about 18-20 total at the opening round at Taupo, and probably around 25 total at the Supercar round and a similar number at the V8 Festival at Hampton Downs.

The trip down South will also take it's toll but should still deliver 15 plus cars overall, and along with the CMC's should make for a great Invercargill round.

My guess is V8ST is probably going to average about 7 maybe 8 cars in the North Island and about 6 in the South Island.

The Top end of NZ Tin-top Motor racing is hurting badly, you only have to look at last weekends 3 hour race at Invercargill only about 16 entries and a handful of top cars, plus no results, nothing on any National news service, or on their own Facebook page the next day after the race. If it was not for Mylaps you would never know that the event was on.

Its a concern, and it is going to take a long time to see change at the top end of the sport, meantime the grass roots stuff is booming, I only have 2 SRS utes left to lease, so very confident we will start all 30 at Taupo.

Cheers,

MP.
Mark Petch is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 10:58 (Ref:3575976)   #66
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Thanks Mark - yes I always used to get frustrated at the lack of media coverage but sometimes I think the organizations in charge can be their own worst enemies.

I'd actually say something similar was true with the administration at NZ Football, we have a sport that is being played in huge numbers at grass roots level (far more than rugby for example) and yet there is a real lack of publicity or coverage of the top level competitions apart from brief coverage of the A League.

Maybe both MSNZ and NZ Football should use the NZRU to do their publicity...
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 11:25 (Ref:3575984)   #67
Alpina107
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 70
Alpina107 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
...we have a sport that is being played in huge numbers at grass roots level (far more than rugby for example) ...
Hey GB, don't necessarily want to get into a footie debate on a motorsport site, but wondered about your comparison between football and rugby player numbers. Are there numbers to support soccer being ahead, or is that anecdotal only?
Alpina107 is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 20:31 (Ref:3576173)   #68
Southern Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 665
Southern Man should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Thanks Mark - yes I always used to get frustrated at the lack of media coverage but sometimes I think the organizations in charge can be their own worst enemies.

I'd actually say something similar was true with the administration at NZ Football, we have a sport that is being played in huge numbers at grass roots level (far more than rugby for example) and yet there is a real lack of publicity or coverage of the top level competitions apart from brief coverage of the A League.

Maybe both MSNZ and NZ Football should use the NZRU to do their publicity...
Until we have a newspaper chain and a radio network that is owned by motorsport followers we can send media releases until our tail falls off but they are not going to use them as a national news item. Newspapers are allowed to do stories on local events and local news but national stuff is determined by the head shed.

As an example this release or another version of it went as I understand, to all significant newspapers and radio news services. How many of you have seen it printed or reported?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald...n-spring-rally
Southern Man is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 20:46 (Ref:3576180)   #69
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Poultry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpina107 View Post
Hey GB, don't necessarily want to get into a footie debate on a motorsport site, but wondered about your comparison between football and rugby player numbers. Are there numbers to support soccer being ahead, or is that anecdotal only?
There are definitely numbers to support it, and particularly in Auckland but here's an example - the AIMS Games in Tauranga just recently finished, biggest school sports tournament in Australasia (over 8000 kids from all over the North Island) and there were 57 football teams, 44 rugby and 10 league.

There's a boy in my son's football team (he plays for TKU who are the biggest sports club of any kind in the country) who has played rugby all his life but has switched to football this year (aged 12/13) because he was sick of being smashed by kids that outweighed him by 20kg and shaved.

Rugby now mainly a PI sport in Auckland. Nobody wears Blues jerseys (can you blame them) and nobody turns up to Eden Park or North Harbour stadium for the ITM Cup, but the FIFA U20 tournament was very well attended here. Everywhere you go, you see kids with Man U, Tottenham, Phoenix, Chelsea, FC Barca, Real Madrid shirts on. Auckland's population is now so foreign that a large number of people have never had any connection with rugby.

I could probably do some research on the numbers playing each sport but I think we are WAY off topic here
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 22 Sep 2015, 20:54 (Ref:3576182)   #70
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
Until we have a newspaper chain and a radio network that is owned by motorsport followers we can send media releases until our tail falls off but they are not going to use them as a national news item. Newspapers are allowed to do stories on local events and local news but national stuff is determined by the head shed.

As an example this release or another version of it went as I understand, to all significant newspapers and radio news services. How many of you have seen it printed or reported?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald...n-spring-rally
Nope, hadn't seen that.

It might be a little bit soon but how about a dedicated motorsport option in one of the online TV platforms like Lightbox? Or a very cheap subscriber platform like Premier League Pass (which isn't all that cheap but you are getting one of the richest sports on the planet) - if you could get the rights to F1, Sports Cars, WRC, V8SC, SBK & Moto GP (all both live and delayed) plus then have space for any local motorsport event to have its content there for free, then charge subscribers a nominal monthly fee which means you don't have to put up with all Sky's bullsh*t I'm sure you could make it work...

It would depend on having a computer or smart TV (which are great) and also the cost would depend on how much the rights were for those things. I expect F1 & WRC would not be cheap, probably not V8SC either but it's the way of the future.
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 04:05 (Ref:3576237)   #71
Southern Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 665
Southern Man should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Nope, hadn't seen that.

It might be a little bit soon but how about a dedicated motorsport option in one of the online TV platforms like Lightbox? Or a very cheap subscriber platform like Premier League Pass (which isn't all that cheap but you are getting one of the richest sports on the planet) - if you could get the rights to F1, Sports Cars, WRC, V8SC, SBK & Moto GP (all both live and delayed) plus then have space for any local motorsport event to have its content there for free, then charge subscribers a nominal monthly fee which means you don't have to put up with all Sky's bullsh*t I'm sure you could make it work...

It would depend on having a computer or smart TV (which are great) and also the cost would depend on how much the rights were for those things. I expect F1 & WRC would not be cheap, probably not V8SC either but it's the way of the future.
There you have a business that you can set up, don't wait for someone else to do it and live to regret missed opportunities.

If you want things to happen then you have to make them happen.
Southern Man is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 04:09 (Ref:3576240)   #72
Goat Boy
Veteran
 
Goat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 2,491
Goat Boy has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Man View Post
There you have a business that you can set up, don't wait for someone else to do it and live to regret missed opportunities.

If you want things to happen then you have to make them happen.
Yeah it would make a change to do something that I actually enjoyed!
Goat Boy is offline  
__________________
Nice one, Centurion!
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 05:02 (Ref:3576243)   #73
Southern Man
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
New Zealand
Posts: 665
Southern Man should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Boy View Post
Yeah it would make a change to do something that I actually enjoyed!
I can't really recall doing anything I didn't enjoy.
Southern Man is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 07:27 (Ref:3576264)   #74
CDM
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 249
CDM should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Petch View Post

The Top end of NZ Tin-top Motor racing is hurting badly, you only have to look at last weekends 3 hour race at Invercargill only about 16 entries and a handful of top cars, plus no results, nothing on any National news service, or on their own Facebook page the next day after the race. If it was not for Mylaps you would never know that the event was on.

Don’t believe that just because its not on the TV3 news or the back page of the NZ Herald that things don’t happen.

The SI Endurance Series is actually organised & run by just one unpaid volunteer, and it’s a ****ing huge job. I know that because that person is me!


Im sorry that I couldn’t post the live updates from the Teretonga circuit as we normally do. Im sure you know how **** the reception is at Teretonga, especially when the weather is poor, and I posted this once I had reception on Sunday a.m.

Im sorry that I couldn’t release immediate race reports. I had to drive 7 hours home on Sunday & then I had to sit down & write them both

Im sorry that all the media outlets I sent those reports to didn’t publish them. Im unsure how to fix that.

Im sorry I couldn’t edit & upload the 200+ pics to our facebook page until Monday night. I do have a day job as well.


To be honest I think that given our limited resources we do a bloody good job, remembering that we are a series that caters for the drivers more so than the fans. Its public knowledge that we have a massive prizemoney pool but every single dollar of that goes straight back to the competitors so Im sorry we are no frills in our series promotion.

Have a look at the massive amount of updates on the SIERDC facebook page (www.facebook.com/sierdcnz) both pre and post race, excluding the race day as above, and I would be surprised if ANY series posts as much Series info as SIERDC.
Comparing it ….. Its only a few weeks until kick-off of the NZTC season and there is only ONE post since July 5th on the NZV8 fb page and ONE since Aug 9th on the V8ST fb page. Only one item of news since June on the NZV8 website and the V8ST site doesn’t even seem to exist anymore.

I totally agree that the top end of racing in NZ is hurting and yes numbers in the 3hr were down. You quote above how hard it is to get competitors all the way South, but the Teretonga 1hr race was oversubscribed and we currently have a waiting list for Levels. We should also have well over 20 3hr cars at Ruapuna next weekend and there are definitely more than a ‘handful’ of top cars when the race winner qualifies 8th at Teretonga.

I also agree that the lower levels of motor racing are flourishing. I also know this as am the Chairman of 2K Cup South Island and we have upwards of 80 entries that will be competing on the day after the Ruapuna Enduro

Love to debate this more but I am still organising things for 3 events over the next 3 weeks. I also hope to finally get to unpack my bag from Teretonga tonight J

Chris.

Last edited by Woolley; 25 Sep 2015 at 11:26. Reason: autoncensor
CDM is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Sep 2015, 08:36 (Ref:3576277)   #75
Mark Petch
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
Mark Petch should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDM View Post
Don’t believe that just because its not on the TV3 news or the back page of the NZ Herald that things don’t happen.

The SI Endurance Series is actually organised & run by just one unpaid volunteer, and it’s a ****ing huge job. I know that because that person is me!


Im sorry that I couldn’t post the live updates from the Teretonga circuit as we normally do. Im sure you know how **** the reception is at Teretonga, especially when the weather is poor, and I posted this once I had reception on Sunday a.m.

Im sorry that I couldn’t release immediate race reports. I had to drive 7 hours home on Sunday & then I had to sit down & write them both

Im sorry that all the media outlets I sent those reports to didn’t publish them. Im unsure how to fix that.

Im sorry I couldn’t edit & upload the 200+ pics to our facebook page until Monday night. I do have a day job as well.


To be honest I think that given our limited resources we do a bloody good job, remembering that we are a series that caters for the drivers more so than the fans. Its public knowledge that we have a massive prizemoney pool but every single dollar of that goes straight back to the competitors so Im sorry we are no frills in our series promotion.

Have a look at the massive amount of updates on the SIERDC facebook page (www.facebook.com/sierdcnz) both pre and post race, excluding the race day as above, and I would be surprised if ANY series posts as much Series info as SIERDC.
Comparing it ….. Its only a few weeks until kick-off of the NZTC season and there is only ONE post since July 5th on the NZV8 fb page and ONE since Aug 9th on the V8ST fb page. Only one item of news since June on the NZV8 website and the V8ST site doesn’t even seem to exist anymore.

I totally agree that the top end of racing in NZ is hurting and yes numbers in the 3hr were down. You quote above how hard it is to get competitors all the way South, but the Teretonga 1hr race was oversubscribed and we currently have a waiting list for Levels. We should also have well over 20 3hr cars at Ruapuna next weekend and there are definitely more than a ‘handful’ of top cars when the race winner qualifies 8th at Teretonga.

I also agree that the lower levels of motor racing are flourishing. I also know this as am the Chairman of 2K Cup South Island and we have upwards of 80 entries that will be competing on the day after the Ruapuna Enduro

Love to debate this more but I am still organising things for 3 events over the next 3 weeks. I also hope to finally get to unpack my bag from Teretonga tonight J

Chris.
Chris, thanks for your very informative post, I readily admit to being somewhat ignorant of your organisation's structure, which is why in a weird way you have found yourself "hoist on your own petard' as it were, because the build up to your first event via social media was excellent, and because of that I found myself, like many others desperate for news, but there was none, and I now understand why.

Hopefully you can find another volunteer with some basic media skills as those of us that actually can't or will not be at your next two events does not mean we are not very interested in whats happening and the results as soon as they come to hand.

The problem we have at the top end of our sport in every category is one of cost versus reward, which is why people like Hugh Gardiner, will travel all that way to Invercargill to have a very good chance of winning a one hour race, rather than find another driver to help with the considerable additional costs of running in a 3 hour race, with full crew, refuelling etc.

Its also the exact same reason we also took the much lower cost option when we ran Gene Rollinson in the Pukekohe 1 hour race in the Mosler, and also the reason we pulled the plug on running any future proper 2 handed endurance races.

Certainly the lack of television makes it virtually impossible to raise a decent budget, and there is no question Owen and I tried but failed to raise any meaningful sponsorship in order carry on. The sad fact is without television there are only ever going to be a small number of wealthy guys, that can afford to bank-roll buying, and running a competitive GT3 car, which becomes the limiting factor to top end domestic endurance racing competitors.

Keep up the good work Chris,

Cheers,

Mark.

Last edited by Woolley; 25 Sep 2015 at 11:27. Reason: autocensor on quoted post
Mark Petch is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017 Bob Riebe North American Racing 5472 29 Sep 2017 11:27
2016 Calendar William5 Australasian Touring Cars. 29 9 Sep 2015 01:34
PREMIER RACE SERIES 2015 - 2016 SEASON The Realist New Zealand Motor Racing 15 23 Jun 2015 08:03
[LM24] 2016 date...? Muppetdave901 24 Heures du Mans 2 11 Feb 2015 00:21
New engine regs for 2016 - again?! Moneyseeker Formula One 105 4 Feb 2015 14:23


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.