Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

TCR is stagnant and will never get any better than it is now - which isn't that great. Manufacturers are leaving, some to eTCR which is a whole other thing and I think may not last.

The GT3 move for DTM caused the series to collapse, so those ideas are all literal fantasy.

All very negative views. At least those categories do provide a global market for selling racing cars to standard regulations. TCR and GT3 mass-production keeps the lights on at JAS Motorsport for example, as much as some may view the classes as "not great" and "ripe for collapse". Competitive homologations made out of as-yet-unhomologated vehicles could potentially be good sellers.

So where was "Supercars" in arranging a common set of affordable, sensible regulations with DTM organisers? With both series racing high-performance coupes, a common set of regulations would have been ideal!

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

So where was "Supercars" in arranging a common set of affordable, sensible regulations with DTM organisers? With both series racing high-performance coupes, a common set of regulations would have been ideal!

Is your lack of awareness that bad?

DTM had incredibly expensive cars and instead of seeking a cost effective solution they got in bed with the Super GT which arguably was even more expensive, which led to them adopting GT3 after the manufacturers left. This led to the financial collapse of the promoter and it's sale.

Unclear to me what the future is for the DTM, it can't be "just another GT3" series but that's what it seems to be now.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Mixer

TCR is stagnant and will never get any better than it is now - which isn't that great. Manufacturers are leaving, some to eTCR which is a whole other thing and I think may not last.
.

What manufacturers have left TCR that competed in 2022?

Originally Posted by Mixer

The GT3 move for DTM caused the series to collapse, so those ideas are all literal fantasy.

Pardon?

Going to GT3 saved the DTM! It was dead in the water with the Class One rules after 2020, moving to GT3 gave it two more years under ITR, and continues into 2023 with ADAC taking over

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by one five five

What manufacturers have left TCR that competed in 2022?

Nice way to cherry pick - plenty left before 2022 (many to eTCR). There will not be any new ones. TCR has peaked and it is never going to grow from here.

Originally Posted by one five five

Going to GT3 saved the DTM! It was dead in the water with the Class One rules after 2020, moving to GT3 gave it two more years under ITR, and continues into 2023 with ADAC taking over

Continues... After it caused the organiser to collapse. I'd suggest it won't exist in 2 years.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Continues... After it caused the organiser to collapse. I'd suggest it won't exist in 2 years.

Not saying that you're definitely wrong but honestly saying I can't really see ADAC causing the DTM to collapse. Not in the next few years at least. If they keep the DTM on the top of their 'pyramid' I guess it's more probable for GT Masters to collapse or merging both series together but can't really see DTM disappearing that easily under ADAC's helm. At the end of the day their financial model and resources are different to ITR. ITR has relied on big cash coming directly from manufacturers for years. Their model proved unsustainable after switching to GT3 and that's what made them collapse. In these new circumstances ADAC is, I believe, better prepared to handle the - let's be honest - most popular German championship. The question is rather how bold they'll be with long-term plans for the DTM and German motorsport scene in general.

[Mixer]

so DTM just becomes the name for a pseudo European GT3 championship?

it just means nothing now. I don't know that it has a place to be.

[S griffin]

DTM is expanding, so it's much more than a German series now. Fair play for them for trying, but how long will it last?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

DTM is expanding, so it's much more than a German series now. Fair play for them for trying, but how long will it last?

Well - since the series became Deutsche Tourenwagen Masters they've had overseas rounds for over twenty years now, so it seems to be lasting.

[S griffin]

Yes, but they still mainly had German rounds, but it took time to pick up elsewhere. Now they seem to have as many races in other countries and I think that might be a step too far

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, but they still mainly had German rounds, but it took time to pick up elsewhere. Now they seem to have as many races in other countries and I think that might be a step too far

You probably need to check back on the history of the series before making that statement.
You do realise that from 2002 onwards (with the exception of 2015) at least 40% of races were held outside of Germany every season?

The only reason I make this point is because you described the series as 'expanding [...] it's much more than a German series now' and I am highlighting that it has been that way for over 20 years.

When you look at the range of nationalities competing as drivers, IMO it seems right to have a continental reach - don't you think?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Nice way to cherry pick - plenty left before 2022 (many to eTCR). There will not be any new ones. TCR has peaked and it is never going to grow from here.

Plenty left TCR?
From the factory projects only Volkswagen left TCR but that was because they quit all forms of motorsport. They had already developed a new version of the TCR Golf. Last season we have seen the debut of the Toyota Corolla TCR. Took already it's first vicotry.

Many left for eTCR?
Only Alfa Romeo left WTCR for eTCR. Cupra and Hyundai are still in (W)TCR.

in 2022 I have seen racing with TCR versions of Alfa Romeo, Audi, Cupra, Fiat, Holden, Honda, Hyundai, Lada, MG, Peugeot, Renault, Subaru, Volkswagen, Lynk & Co and Toyota.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Plenty left TCR?
From the factory projects only Volkswagen left TCR but that was because they quit all forms of motorsport. They had already developed a new version of the TCR Golf. Last season we have seen the debut of the Toyota Corolla TCR. Took already it's first vicotry.

Correct on Toyota - that is genuinely new to competition but it's also been promised for about 5 years.

on VW, not correct - 7.5 was out a long time before VW pulled out - by which point Mk8 was already around.

Audi did revise the RS3 after it was said that only Cupra would continue in TCR.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Correct on Toyota - that is genuinely new to competition but it's also been promised for about 5 years.

on VW, not correct - 7.5 was out a long time before VW pulled out - by which point Mk8 was already around.

Audi did revise the RS3 after it was said that only Cupra would continue in TCR.

Images have emerged of a Volkswagen Golf GTI TCR MK8 prototype, a model mothballed when Volkswagen Motorsport closed its doors.

The car was set to replace the MK7 Golf GTI TCR in 2021, but the project was stopped as Volkswagen announced that it halted all motorsport activities in December 2020.

Judging from the images, the prototype was in a late stage of development and is currently residing at the Volkswagen Classic museum in Wolfsburg.

...

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2022...mk8-prototype/

MK8 Golf GTI was launched in the summer of 2020 so it makes sense to start racing with the MK8 Golf GTI TCR in 2021.

So your info is not correct. Mayby do some homework before making bold statements (see also the TCR Australia topic).

[Mixer]

Err, your point 100% proves my point.

Mk8 production car was around when VW were pulling out and they've never sold a Mk8 TCR race car, which is why you have a PROTOTYPE in a museum.

[S griffin]

I think the Supercars series will grow now. TCR isn't really enough of a threat, despite it's close racing