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Old 21 Jul 2021, 15:49 (Ref:4062555)   #436
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post

FIA F1 race director Michael Masi underlined the view that the stewards’ objection was not whether Hamilton should have made the move in the first place, but that he didn’t execute it well enough. I.e., he was far enough alongside to attempt the pass, but by running wider than he should have done he caused an avoidable accident.[/I]
A thoroughly excellent brief summary of the position, IMO.
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 17:18 (Ref:4062567)   #437
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A thoroughly excellent brief summary of the position, IMO.
...which also calmly undermines Horner's innacurate and intemperate ravings.
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 17:58 (Ref:4062573)   #438
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTaxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
For good measure the onboard footage of T1 from the again excellent Jolyon video:
https://youtu.be/Rp0GG4y3is8?t=855

The footage (not analyses necessarily) confirming the point I was making earlier that if Verstappen hadn't gone wide and leave so much room, there would already have been contact at T1.
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 18:43 (Ref:4062575)   #439
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTaxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Just for balance I will add, before I get accused of having a certain flag under my alias ; I still agree that at copse both drivers were not without blame and the whole Marko/Horner humbug about race bans and lawyers is pretty tiresome and indeed in case of the latter hypocritical.
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 20:35 (Ref:4062586)   #440
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Well now Horner’s saying he doesn’t like team bosses who complain to the stewards! So I guess you only speak to the stewards when they call you, Christian?
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 20:57 (Ref:4062589)   #441
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Well now Horner’s saying he doesn’t like team bosses who complain to the stewards! So I guess you only speak to the stewards when they call you, Christian?
I'm loving Toto's comments:

“I was told that there was a rant on the radio to Michael about all the badness in the world,” said Wolff. “And then I went up and gave my opinion.

“I think it’s fair enough. I’ve been to the stewards many times in my life.”

Masi said he has not concerned about team principals speaking to stewards in person during a race, pointing out it happened at the Italian Grand Prix last year when Hamilton queried a penalty during a red flag period.

“If we have an incident after the race, we invite the teams and the drivers to come up and appear before the stewards,” said Masi. “We had the case in Monza last year when Lewis went and spoke to the stewards to understand and have a look at the whole thing. It’s during the suspension, so that ability exists, there’s no reason not to.”


"All the badness in the world"
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 22:11 (Ref:4062597)   #442
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Frankly, I don't really listen to what either Toto or Horner have to say. They are both team managers and will try their best to discredit the opposition whilst pumping up the egos of their own drivers or car...I ignore most of what both of what they say because they are just playing 'the game'. They are both as bad as each other, unfortunately. Sure it is interesting tit-for-tat media frenzy stuff but it is all rather meaningless.

Yes, Horner did come across as rather over the top and passionate but in reality it is no different to Mercedes bleating over rear wings or how fast pit stops are.

Max is ok, Hamilton won. Toto and Horner will likely swap roles at the next incident to suit their own agendas and no-one will be right or wrong, it will just be conjecture.
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 22:21 (Ref:4062598)   #443
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I thought Toto’s remark about Christian being ‘a windbag who likes to be on camera’ was quite accurate!
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Old 21 Jul 2021, 23:50 (Ref:4062602)   #444
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Yeah, true. Don't expect the Red Bull camp to be consistent with their views on what is / isn't acceptable.

They will give you their narrative that suits their agenda, and regularly they have been shown to carry a certain level of hypocrisy.
As has every single other team in the paddock.
Every team has self interests.
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 03:45 (Ref:4062605)   #445
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Frankly, I don't really listen to what either Toto or Horner have to say. They are both team managers and will try their best to discredit the opposition whilst pumping up the egos of their own drivers or car...I ignore most of what both of what they say because they are just playing 'the game'. They are both as bad as each other, unfortunately. Sure it is interesting tit-for-tat media frenzy stuff but it is all rather meaningless.

Yes, Horner did come across as rather over the top and passionate but in reality it is no different to Mercedes bleating over rear wings or how fast pit stops are.

Max is ok, Hamilton won. Toto and Horner will likely swap roles at the next incident to suit their own agendas and no-one will be right or wrong, it will just be conjecture.
I would like to know the delay between the incident occurring and Wolff sending Michael Massi an Email with chapter and verse of the regulations pertaining to the incident quoted, together with diagrams and sketches covering said incident.
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 07:00 (Ref:4062617)   #446
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I would like to know the delay between the incident occurring and Wolff sending Michael Massi an Email with chapter and verse of the regulations pertaining to the incident quoted, together with diagrams and sketches covering said incident.
I think the diagram was a photo of a diagram from the rules.
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 08:11 (Ref:4062624)   #447
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Yes, Horner did come across as rather over the top and passionate but in reality it is no different to Mercedes bleating over rear wings or how fast pit stops are.
I respectfully disagree.

Its one thing to complain/ ask the FIA to check the legality of a car....Red Bull and others are as guilty of doing that to the Mercedes car in the past, but its an entirely different thing to accuse another driver of trying to kill/ injure one of yours, calling someoene disrespectful etc etc etc.

The rhetoric from Horner, Marko, Max during and after the race was quite distastful and over the top, especially given the amount of incidents both red bull drivers have been involved in over the last few years.

I didnt hear other team managers make such accusations about Max in Portugual last year for instance (both Strolls and Perez incident on the Sunday)
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 08:34 (Ref:4062628)   #448
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Which, taking emotion and bias out of this is a balanced and fair reflection of events. This was picked up in Palmers video on the F1 Youtube channel last night.

It will be interesting to see if Red Bull try to go ahead with their lawyers and try to get the penalty increased, i for one doubt it will work...although theyve got hamilton penalised before but thats because Red Bull brought substancial new evidence.
i agree (and also with your comments about horner). i think one thing that they overlooked because they only look at the specific incident (fair) is that max was weaving all over the place right from the start. lewis' on board showed he kept to a single line, and was clear and decisive with his car movements. max was over-defending, and acting in the manner in which has prompted just about everyone to say "he's going to have an accident some day when someone doesn't yield for him".

with horner mouthing off like his life depended on it whilst also not being very committed to what he was actually saying, he managed to deflect attention away from max's driving and towards his wellbeing. max deserved a reprimand at the least for that weaving, and he obviously hasn't had one.

all that said, i look forward to the next installment of the max vs lewis show. there's beef now. it's gonna be great.
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 08:52 (Ref:4062630)   #449
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This was a good analysis with some interesting camera angles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au5PtZa8fKU
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Old 22 Jul 2021, 09:17 (Ref:4062633)   #450
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I would like to know the delay between the incident occurring and Wolff sending Michael Massi an Email with chapter and verse of the regulations pertaining to the incident quoted, together with diagrams and sketches covering said incident.
From memory, watching it live, not very long after the red flag was thrown - 15-20 minutes tops?
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