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Old 18 Jun 2001, 17:01 (Ref:106462)   #1
Slowcoach
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Slowcoach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
On-Track Driving Standards

So fellow racers what do you think of driving standards of your fellow competitors this year.....(in general terms)
At Mallory yesterday 5 of the seven races were red-flagged , in one race alone 4 cars were severely damaged - maybe write-offs . A friend of mine was at Snetterton yesterday and said that in a different race to his there were hot hatches crashing off left right and centre.
I'm prompted to ask this as although I was midgrid at the start , by the end of the first lap I was , for the first time right up amongst and in front of some of the 'big boys' in my series , in fourth and although I stood my ground throughout (and got hit twice) I felt pretty intimidated to start with and at one stage a car got just about past me , cut in and just stood on his brakes - how I didnt ram him I will never know but my resulting lock-up and wobble cost me another place not to mention nearly giving me a heartattack.....anyway this is my first season so I have nothing to compare with but my friend raised concern that new drivers to various series will be reluctant to put sometimes very expensive and/or cars with famous history at risk to such aggressive tactics which will in turn hurt grid sizes , and quite frankly it's unnecessary as we are supposed to be having 'fun' ?????

Last edited by Slowcoach; 18 Jun 2001 at 17:04.
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Old 18 Jun 2001, 17:24 (Ref:106472)   #2
Vandas
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Vandas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Slowcoach,

I used to think that motorsport wasn't as dangerous as everyone made it out to be. Then I realised it isn't just the risk of your own mechanical or mental failure, it is that of the people around you.

At our last State Round in our class (Improved PRoduction Cars) I don't think one car came back straight. There were all sorts of stupid moves and dangerous tactics being used, which means we now have to go and spend more money rebuilding the car.

We were running in the front bunch after starting on the back of the grid. When my Dad, who lacks a bit of race craft knowledge left a small gap, and a Mazda RX3 used us for brakes. We accepted this as a fair move, as the door was left open for him. Next lap around and my Dad goes through the same corner, this time a supposed experienced driver decided not to brake at all going into a 100 degree right hander and took both us and himself off the track. We recovered and finished 6th or 8th or something, but it cost us a podium finish.

It was stupid and foolish and is costing us more time and parts to get the car ready for next meeting.

Another example is the race straight after ours which saw an HQ lose it coming onto the main straight, so all the drivers behind him, put the boot in and we ended up with 8 cars written off, and 2 drivers being flown off to the spinal units of Victorian Hospitals.

It is these incidents which make you think that the licencing system needs to be scaled up, not down, and that there should be more education on race craft and driving tactics, as well as bigger fines in place for reckless drivers.

Otherwise, we may have to put together a stockpile of panels and an older car and go out and teach these drivers a lesson ourselves.

hahahahahaha
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Old 18 Jun 2001, 17:43 (Ref:106484)   #3
twin 40's
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twin 40's should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
speaking as a 'rally boy'

I keep hearing a saying at my motor club:

In racing it is always someone elses accident.
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Old 19 Jun 2001, 09:21 (Ref:106776)   #4
josvandeperre
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josvandeperre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Twin 40's - thank you - not very helpful

I was at Mallory too and imho this has a lot to do with survivability of accidents and higher disposable income and the BTCC on tv

A lot of people in a lot of classes don't care - they think kissing other cars is normal - the old Olympic idyll of just competing does not apply - beating someone is everything and if thats at the cost of a few panels then we've seen on tv that thats ok - and even if it goes wrong a big trip to the wall is only money

This applies to more and more series - partly it is technological - the cars are so much more capable and equal that passing is ever more difficult

As to the solution I have no suggestions - certainly greater sanction against persistent offenders - every series has one or two - but compare F1 with CART - why is there overtaking in CART generally with respect ?
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Old 19 Jun 2001, 10:58 (Ref:106798)   #5
Peter Mallett
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I am not averse to a bit of "friendly" paint swapping. By that I don't mean nerfing and nudging. I mean if you know your opponent and can trust him/her not to do something silly then that gives you both the freedom to run close to the limit which inevitably means the risk of contact. Malc Best and I have enjoyed some really close scraps with bumpers rubbing on many a corner.

However I get thoroughly p***ed off when I'm minding my own business and a git in a jag who I'm lapping for the second time tries to take me out. Last time it twisted my chassis. (Pembrey 2000).

If you watch the CSCC video from last year you will see, from inside my car, Murray Henderson running into the side of me. We were both going in the same direction coming out of Sear and so it wasn't too damaging. What you don't see is Murray using me as a brake at Russell thereby putting a large amount of damage into my driver's door.

Unfortunately we get people like that.

To pick up on another point. Generally the standards in the 750MC have reduced since they introduced the Hot Hatches. I refuse to watch them on the basis that its where the majority of psychos have gone to race.

Sorry if that upsets some staunch 750 ers.
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Old 22 Jun 2001, 03:53 (Ref:108140)   #6
Peter Mallett
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I'm aware that I may have given the wrong impression of the driving standards in the CSCC in my previous post. In fact I was just trying to respond to Slowcoach's post about the Historics. These things do happen and racing is racing even at club level. The fact is that Mallory is a notoriously dodgy circuit. There are few places where the car is completely stable and it is also one of the fastest circuits in the country. The run from the "esses" to Shaw's hairpin is seriously scary. The car tries to move to the right whilst you are braking and trying to move to the left. It requires a lot of balance. That's why there are always nudges and bumps at that corner.

Gerrards is the opposite. You head into that on a feathered throttle and the car is light. You plant your foot around the one third mark and the car tries to steer into the bend, then you exit over a kerb which throws you to the outside of the circuit, onto more kerbs. The car is still finding its feet when you start to set it up for the esses and away you go again.
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Old 22 Jun 2001, 10:56 (Ref:108186)   #7
yelwoci
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I concur with both Jos and Peter.
Firstly, I strongly believe that the behaviour of the drivers in the top echelons of motorsport, especially that which is televised, and the blatant sanctioning of it by the authorities, sets the standards for the whole game.
The UK BTCC in particular is nothing short of a disgrace. Yes it brings in the crowds (or a certain crowd!) but so does banger racing at our National short oval stadiums.

Secondly, Over the last few years I have been involved in a number of self-inflicted incidents which luckily have not involved other parties, largely due to my lack driving ability.
However, I believe I have a high standard of driving in that I try within the concept of racing to treat my fellow competitors with repect. In general most people I've raced with and against have also followed this maxim.
My attitude is enforced by driving an RX-7 which is very soft, so a little tap is not noticed by the other party, but the front of the car is stove in, as Stacy Vickers discovered at Snetterton.

There have however been 4 incidents that I have seen, 3 involving me, which I think indicate the typical mind sets of the 'animals':

1.Ex-top league driver driving in clubman 1 hr race, stuck behind a defensively driven slower car. Finally gets past and side swipes him on a flat out right hander (Woodlands, Pembrey) almost knocking him of the circuit. This from an 'elder statesman'.
2.Again at Pembrey and in a 1hr race with highly experienced driver from another series. After about 5 laps dicing with a Capri, I made a slight mistake staying wide into the hairpin, though the car behind was well back. He speared down the inside and T-boned me in the middle of the corner (tin-opener special down the side). At the time I thought it was just an incident, but observers said that his brakes had been cooked for several laps and that it looked like a well planned move! And he didn't even come and apologise or shake hands! CYNICAL
3.Again at a Pembrey 1 Hr race, a highly experienced touring car racer just turned into the hairpin into a car(me) on the apex, with loads of space on the outside. Why! Probably because he could...Its tough at the front of the grid!
4.Driver of a very large Camaro, having to start at the back of the pack a Lydden Hill (a tiny 1.1mile circuit set in a valley, v hilly), Comes storming up the hill to the hairping, with small hatchbacks and sub-900kg cars all around, can't get up the inside so drives on the grass and unable to brake, spears across the track at the apex of the hairpin. Luckily everyone missed him. LUNACY

Enough of my Griping...not much to moan about in 6 years I suppose.

:-)
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Old 23 Jun 2001, 11:16 (Ref:108556)   #8
DAVID PATERSON
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DAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDAVID PATERSON should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
About half of the time at our club's general meeting last week was devoted to a discussion on driving ettiquette and passing procedure. Because we have enormous diversity in our fuields there is a huge speed differential, but because our races are so short, nearly all of the incidents occur during the one, short qualifying session.

Qualifying exacerbates the problem because in a race everyone's on a hot lap, from start to finish, but in qualifying, people are flat out, cooling down or warming up and we're all spread out too. Interestingly, one of the most common complaints is the quick guys on a slow lap baulking the slow guys who are on a hot one.

I had to speak up to about people who just don't think. One example I gave was a chap who does the same times as me, when I was on a hot lap, he was exiting the pits and pulled straight in front of me and wanted to make a race of it????
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Old 27 Jun 2001, 16:04 (Ref:110302)   #9
RickP:Clio51
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RickP:Clio51 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRickP:Clio51 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I conceed that driving standards can be perceived as poor, especially if you have been on the rough end of it, but it has been an eye opener for me racing in continental Europe as opposed to the UK.
Admittedly the Clio V6 is a tough car to drive, unpredictable both under acceleration, braking and cornering (doesn't leave a lot really does it?) but believe me, the UK is a boys world compared to it (this from a guy who raced in the Clio Touring car support races last year which was considered a badboy series...) at Spa we started 54 cars. 22 finished, the majority of the other eliminated due to contact...

Final word, BTC drivers were officially briefed to hit each other to "up the excitement..."

Cheers
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Old 27 Jun 2001, 19:42 (Ref:110406)   #10
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Dan Friel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDan Friel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Exactly the reason why I won't marshal at BTCC meetings anymore.. someones due a big nasty accident with all that 'permitted' contact..
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Old 28 Jun 2001, 08:27 (Ref:110628)   #11
RickP:Clio51
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RickP:Clio51 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRickP:Clio51 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think I would be happier being a flaggy at the BTC than Europe, they don't slow for yellows and killed a marshal after the red flags were flown last year in testing.
To be honest I consider it disgraceful, but the Europeans just seem to have a different opinion on the value of human life.
I'd be tempted to say that it seems to work well most of the time and makes for exciting racing, but I haven't been stuck in the wall by an errant Italian yet... I guess my relaxed attitude would change!
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