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26 Apr 2019, 14:25 (Ref:3899798) | #351 | ||||
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Absent of proper testing lap times which lead to winning are an indicator of a discrepancy, at least when there were enough data points. If the Mustang was not dominating because the teams were still sorting it out, there wouldn't be any complaints of aero advantage? My opinion is Supercars were too weak in allowing such a departure from the road car body shape. I would have dealt with the roof height problem by raising the belt Line slightly, and kept an authentic shape front and rear from there. It would mean a deeper front spoiler and side skirts (higher sills) which would be easier to make look good. If necessary for drag, a bonnet vent from the grille over the radiator could reduce the effective height of the front end. Ideally Supercars should be driving the design of aero additions to the cars via their own staff. With the intention of being touring car racing, big downforce is not needed so elements could be pretty similar between cars. Do wind tunnel testing to validate the numbers, open access to data for the teams so the process can be trusted. Far better than the current secret-squirrel megabucks (or not in the case of the Nissan) development; the championship is about racing after all not aerodynamics which nobody really cares about and which can only be a distraction. This could improve variety in the championship because it would reduce the input required from manufacturers to participate and thus the barrier to entry. More variety, more interest, more sponsors etc. |
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26 Apr 2019, 15:07 (Ref:3899806) | #352 | |
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26 Apr 2019, 15:08 (Ref:3899808) | #353 | |
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26 Apr 2019, 16:41 (Ref:3899826) | #354 | ||
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Personally, I don't understand why Kelly Racing did not homologate larger rear wing endplates with a bootlid extension for this season, in order to match the ZB Commodore. But, perhaps, it's best they didn't as it may have been clipped by a parity adjustment anyway... vs If I was Kelly Racing I would have even gone creative and followed the example of the Renault F1 mothership with louvred end-plates, as presumably there is nothing in the regulations prohibiting it? Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 26 Apr 2019 at 16:51. |
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26 Apr 2019, 21:30 (Ref:3899881) | #355 | |
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What If the Hokey Pokey Really IS What It's All About??????????? |
27 Apr 2019, 08:37 (Ref:3899921) | #356 | |||
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Nissan GTR's with turbo valves which were set by the team that they were designed to restrict (and many years down the track it was admitted they fudged them) Lightweight bodyshells Cars built to incorrect weights due to misprints in the rule books Freon valves in the fire system that just happen to "accidentally" activate in front of the intercooler during a qualifying lap The point is, everyone exploits the rules. Until it is declared illegal, engineers will always try to find an advantage. |
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What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
27 Apr 2019, 10:05 (Ref:3899935) | #357 | |||
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The F1 rulebook certainly does not say that! |
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27 Apr 2019, 11:33 (Ref:3899959) | #358 | ||
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Perhaps the Falcon FG/X might prove a better a better car to run now
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
27 Apr 2019, 15:00 (Ref:3900014) | #359 | |
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28 Apr 2019, 21:44 (Ref:3900362) | #360 | |||
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Got to remember these things punch such a hole in the air, the only reason the Altima wing is so high, is so that it actually gets some airflow on it so it works. Also notice how the centre mounted wing has gone?? Again, the centre mounts don't let the wing work at 100%, so they went. |
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It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!! Velociraptor Performance Industries |
29 Apr 2019, 01:47 (Ref:3900379) | #361 | ||
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It was a different age anyway. The Wanneroo round had 16 entries in 1992. Mallalalalala may well have been even less than that. The Sandown 500 had to run production cars to get a half decent grid. Basically the Nissan had to be nobbled for the survival of the sport. A completely different circumstance to now when changes to the Mustang look to be damaging the integrity of the sport. Anyway I would happily add any of the homologated Group A cars to my collection of one, which is an R32 GTR. |
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29 Apr 2019, 01:48 (Ref:3900380) | #362 | |
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Did anyone seriously expect Penske to do anything other than dominate the category? A simple yes or no answer will suffice.
After the changes will they test the cars in the same way they tested them for parity or just make some changes and call it job done. I have never followed what the parity procedure is but by all aero standards and the little I know it is stone age stuff at best. They should ask Penske for a loan of his wind tunnel and hire some independent aero engineers to do this stuff properly. Cost will be a factor but this is a professional racing series isn't it and real racing costs real money. The knee jerk changes being made make the managers of the category look like teachers catching a five year old doing something wrong and scolding them all because they did not supervise the child properly. |
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29 Apr 2019, 02:41 (Ref:3900389) | #363 | ||||
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The stupid thing is, they're testing the cars to 200km/h, not what's happening after. They've bought this onto themselves more than anything by having such parameters. It's red faces all round... Either way, if the thing keeps winning, they'll only make more of a farce by handicapping it more over the Holden. |
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It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!! Velociraptor Performance Industries |
30 Apr 2019, 11:46 (Ref:3900691) | #364 | ||
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30 Apr 2019, 23:09 (Ref:3900872) | #365 | |
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That’s good, nice to see lessons learned from that. Never good if bonnet’s go up so easy. That’s why we have rules like that in place
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
3 May 2019, 12:08 (Ref:3901483) | #366 | |
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I really enjoy Paul Morris’s no crap approach. But seriously, this comment is incorrect.
“Morris claims that there are a number of features which have not been allowed in Supercars before, even when then-homologation teams of other manufacturers attempted to introduce them. Those features include the lower edge of the rear wing endplates, which has now been snipped, as well as a flick on the plane which hangs off the Mustang’s bootlid that Morris believes functions effectively as a second wing. “That’s another one of the implements, the tools, that none of the teams have ever been able to use before,” he claimed regarding the bootlid attachment. “That little duckbill kick on the rear bootlid, it kicks up, creates downforce; that’s never been allowed to be used before from any other teams. “That’s one of the things when I saw the car and went, ‘Holy moly, how have you let them do that?’ There’s another wing on the car.” Yeah the Mustang has the extra wing hanging over the back. But so does the Commodore. They both have it. Nissan really needed to pay top dollar to have better design! |
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3 May 2019, 18:01 (Ref:3901560) | #367 | |
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No nonsense approach is what it needs. That said he has got a few things wrong and is maybe looking in the wrong areas. He needs to watch what the others do, as they seem to know more about this game.
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
3 May 2019, 19:23 (Ref:3901585) | #368 | ||
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What areas do you think he should be looking in?
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96 days... |
4 May 2019, 19:37 (Ref:3901852) | #369 | |
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Maybe try and learn from the other teams
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
6 May 2019, 02:45 (Ref:3902122) | #370 | |||
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Maybe it's time that VSC stood in and said to Nissan we want you to step up, what help you need, lets get it and get you guys forward. The Kelly's have great business sense, but somehow i very doubt their racing sense at the moment and what is happening with that car. |
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It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!! Velociraptor Performance Industries |
6 May 2019, 03:10 (Ref:3902123) | #371 | |
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The decklid extension on the Mustang is upswept, whereas those seen on the VF, ZB, FG-X and Volvo are flat.
I'm in agreeance about the Kellys. Their politicking of the rules has been quite poor in comparison. |
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6 May 2019, 03:17 (Ref:3902124) | #372 | |
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Well that shows more ingenuity and you can't blame them for taking it further than the rest. Just a shame the Kellys need to spoil it by politicizing, not what the series need
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
6 May 2019, 03:48 (Ref:3902137) | #373 | |||
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The Kelly Racing squad are the least publicly or privately political with the powers that be of the sport. They ask for nothing, so they get exactly what they ask for. There is something very different around the aero of the Nissan, and that of either the Ford or the Holden... or the Benz or Volvo as it happens. The Nissan is on its 3rd homologation of aero, and its still looking different... |
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Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House |
6 May 2019, 10:42 (Ref:3902187) | #374 | |
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Ok fair enough. The Nissan certainly needs improving compared to the rest, but it’s done well to get where it is
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
14 Jun 2019, 07:44 (Ref:3910009) | #375 | |
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Can't make the Mustang slow enough so now they make the holden go faster, where does all this stop? They wouldn't be helping the Mustang if the holden was winning everything, this is a rort!
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/14...ges-explained/ |
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