[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[S griffin]

I wonder how much Williams regret not giving Newey a bigger stake in the team? After all it wasn’t like he was trying to take over the team. He would have been perfect to take Head’s role when he moved aside. Of course Adrian might not have still been there now, but at least they would have had more to show for their efforts in recent times

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by wnut

Particular emphasis being placed on Bernie's 1997 F1 Concorde Agreement that caused the teams' share of the revenue to drop from 85% of the revenue earned by Bernie to 23%. Another boost to the manufacturers by depriving the smaller teams of revenue.

I’m not thinking this is the greatest source. Although it is a great graphic.

And from a $ amount is it more or less now?

Why did they sign it?

P.S. Much like the over priced PUs that we are currently stuck with.

Back in the day Williams had free Renault or BMW engines (works team) and others had to pay for worse engines. At least nowadays there is way closer parity. Not sure which situation is more unfair. Other than neither - it’s just Williams used to benefit from the inequality not suffer from it financially, but less so performance wise.

[Moneyseeker]

Williams actually benefited more than some of the lesser teams as in BE's agreement it got a 'heritage' payment per year in addition to the teams payments from WCC finishing positions.

Both Williams and McLaren have been impacted by fluctuating and in some cases poor performance in recent years which has hit revenue from FOM and sponsorship. For McLaren it is ironic to see the position they are in now, allegedly Ron D having failed to secure new sponsors for the team declaring that the team did not need sponsors as it could be supported by McLaren Automotive - which did not find favour with the other shareholders, he then failed to raise the funding to buy McLaren back which further soured relations and ended up selling his stake to the newly created McLaren Group.

Now the McLaren Group is cutting 1,200 jobs and had to raise expensive funding, part of which is to apparently make the final payments to Ron D when he sold his stake in McLaren...

OT - apologies!

[Greem]

I had a very restless night for no reason whatsoever but I've got this lurking in my brain...

Did I read that Toto had bought back in to Williams as a shareholder?

Edit: yes I did. No it wasn't a dream.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterDWin...21625467801600

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Greem

I had a very restless night for no reason whatsoever but I've got this lurking in my brain...

Did I read that Toto had bought back in to Williams as a shareholder?

Edit: yes I did. No it wasn't a dream.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterDWin...21625467801600

I saw that. I am trying to understand what his strategy is. There has to be some long game at play here. Is he looking to eventually acquire William for himself? Is he a proxy for someone else? Or is he insuring a seat at the table during negotiations with the next owner for other reasons?

Richard

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Greem

I had a very restless night for no reason whatsoever but I've got this lurking in my brain...

Did I read that Toto had bought back in to Williams as a shareholder?

Edit: yes I did. No it wasn't a dream.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterDWin...21625467801600

Has bought shares in Aston Martin, too. Oh, and next year Racing Point F1 will be re-branded as Aston Martin.

[Richard C]

Another thought on his Williams investment. It may be mostly philanthropic. They may have needed some funding and he stepped up.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

The Aston connection may he a red herring. This is a company facing massive losses atm. But a bigger bite of Williams, if as I suspect, Merc corporate are getting cold feet, would mean continued involvement. And then Aston engine supply.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The Aston connection may he a red herring. This is a company facing massive losses atm. But a bigger bite of Williams, if as I suspect, Merc corporate are getting cold feet, would mean continued involvement. And then Aston engine supply.

Who makes the Aston engine?

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

The Aston connection may he a red herring. This is a company facing massive losses atm. But a bigger bite of Williams, if as I suspect, Merc corporate are getting cold feet, would mean continued involvement. And then Aston engine supply.

Agreed, but as the Mercedes GP Principal (who supply engines to Williams and RP/ AM) and a shareholder in Williams and AM he will have considerable clout.

[greentrumpet]

If Mercedes pull out there will still be the talented Ilmor engineers who may not want to retire just yet.

[Adam43]

If the chassis side pull out then there will still be the talented Tyrell engineers who may not want to retire just yet

[S griffin]

Could be see a Brawn style buyout like it did when Honda pulled out?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Could be see a Brawn style buyout like it did when Honda pulled out?

I dont think that's a good potential comparison. Honda was exiting the sport. They basically gave Ross Brawn $100 million in cash and $100 million in assets to take over the team. They paid him. He didn't buy the team. Plus, he was already running the team.

Is the Williams corporate entity going to give Claire full ownership? How is their debt erased?

I think what you are really trying to say is if a white knight shows up and buys the team? If sold (vs liquidation) it's probably going to be one of these options...

1. Existing known single individual (maybe with funding from a consortium) in the sport. Think Toto Wolf.

2. Someone who has been looking to get into F1 but hasn't made it work. Think Dmitry Mazepin.

3. An assembled consortium that is totally new.

4. An existing team such as Mercedes.

Richard

[peebee2]

Could we see a Merc junior team?

After all Latifi was testing two year old Mercs.

Russell is Merc tester.

Mazepin has been testing old Mercs too.

[billy bleach]

I wonder who owns Paddy Lowe's shares?....

[peebee2]

Not sure he ever really had more than options.

[Roninho]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I wonder how much Williams regret not giving Newey a bigger stake in the team? After all it wasn’t like he was trying to take over the team. He would have been perfect to take Head’s role when he moved aside. Of course Adrian might not have still been there now, but at least they would have had more to show for their efforts in recent times

i don't think he regrets it for a second.
Sure looking back with knowledge of the situation today you think why not give Newey a stake, or count to ten and let BMW become shareholder in the early 00s, or even just 2 years ago make it work with Stroll.

However Williams got to the toplevel by being independent and survived/outlived essentially everyone by remaining independent. To me therefor it is very logical that a 'fire sale' is the way it is going to end.
Quite simple, if they didnt need to sell they'd stay around running the team, and the only way to stop that is either the team going broke, or being that close to going broke that they will be taken over by someone else.

[Moneyseeker]

Reports are that the interested parties are - Latifii, Mazepin and Nissany - all with an eye to their sons career...

[Richard C]

Nissany.... Ouch!

Unrelated. Do we know if the Williams name is part of the potential sale? If it is, I do wonder if whoever buys the team will keep the name. To go along with my categories I list above as to "type" of buyer. I suspect most would keep the Williams name (I would). But if the team is bought by someone looking to push their kids career, I can see the team being rebranded and maybe the name being lost. However, if someone is looking to rebrand, they may not care to pay for the name and the Williams family may keep it. With it potentially showing up in the future in some form.

Also, is there any serious chance that the Williams family will remain connected to the team post sale? I am sure they would prefer to be left in charge, but who in their right mind would buy the team and leave the management structure in place? Would there maybe be space for Frank as "Ambassador" or some other ceremonial title?

I even feel a bit nauseous typing this stuff out, such is my grief at the potential loss of the Williams name in F1.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Nissany.... Ouch!

Unrelated. Do we know if the Williams name is part of the potential sale? If it is, I do wonder if whoever buys the team will keep the name. To go along with my categories I list above as to "type" of buyer. I suspect most would keep the Williams name (I would). But if the team is bought by someone looking to push their kids career, I can see the team being rebranded and maybe the name being lost. However, if someone is looking to rebrand, they may not care to pay for the name and the Williams family may keep it. With it potentially showing up in the future in some form.

Also, is there any serious chance that the Williams family will remain connected to the team post sale? I am sure they would prefer to be left in charge, but who in their right mind would buy the team and leave the management structure in place? Would there maybe be space for Frank as "Ambassador" or some other ceremonial title?

I even feel a bit nauseous typing this stuff out, such is my grief at the potential loss of the Williams name in F1.

Richard

I remember all that nonsense in 2010 and 2011 about who owned the Lotus name. Hopefully it won't come to that.

If Frank were to remain connected, he could become Chairman Emeritus like Bernie did with the Formula One Group.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Unrelated. Do we know if the Williams name is part of the potential sale?

Interesting point - and one that raises a few thoughts.

If Williams GP was sold, I would expect it would go the same way of Frank Williams Racing Cars, and be re-named by the new owners?

Or would it follow the McLaren route and retain the name of the founder, despite there being no involvement?

[S griffin]

Yes I remember the Lotus naming rights row, although the problem there was that there were two different Lotuses. Williams only have their performance engineering on the side, so they don't have a different company related to it for now

Of course it is still Frank's team, but he doesn't really run it anymore. I guess he feels his time in F1 is over, which is understandable. Maybe he did think about helping run F1 one time, but as he's become less and less involved, I can't see it happening now.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If Frank were to remain connected, he could become Chairman Emeritus like Bernie did with the Formula One Group.

I think BE was a mixture of keeping him around to help as needed, but mostly it was an honorific title. It's not uncommon when senior executives are on good terms and they transition out of the organization. To be honest, I see any involvement of Frank being purely honorific.

I hope if the name remains with the team that any future caretaker values the history and importance to the name. I hope the team remains named "Williams".

Richard