$1,045.45 vs $681.82 - Which is the better wheel?

[Vanilla Dice]

I am curious.

According to the Supercar rules of engagement, a team is allowed to keep 64 Dunlop tyres in its allocation of any condition, from the previously bought sets used at past events.

This means (by my calcs) that a team needs at least 64 rims for these dry tyres, probably 8 or 12 more for wet tyres, and a set of 4 rims for travelling. This is then around 80 rims per car.

Triple 8 showed off their new A-tek rim at Sandown last year, and everyone went "ohh ahh, I gotta get me summa dose" and Mr Roman found himself talking to everyone looking for a freebie

But lets look at the cost..

The new whizzbang 8 spoke A-tek RF54 wheel from Roman AutoTek costs $1,150.00 per wheel including GST (according to AF) or $1,045.45 per rim.

The 5 spoke A-tek RS108 wheel from Roman AutoTek costs $750.00 per wheel including GST (according to AF) or $681.82 per rim.

Most teams are conservative with their footwear, keeping rims for years, stripping the paint and crack testing/x raying them for wear and damage.

Some have too much cash to burn, and completely refit their cars every year with new rims.

So a team buys 80 rims @ $1045.45 per wheel, costing them $83,636.00 per car.

Or they could buy 80 rims @ $681.82 per wheel, costing them $54,545.60 per car. Saving $29,090.40.

Now presuming these wheels last as long, do the same job, are as equally strong in deflecting damage etc etc, why precisely would a team spend an additional $29k per car when they can buy cheaper wheels that can do the same job

Aesthetics aside, it is a total waste of money.

The people running this class talk about cost savings, yet they are happy to burn $29k per car buying wheels when there is an alternative that does the job and is cheaper

Why doesnt Larkham jump up and down about this stuff? His old team had 10 year old Speedlines, they replaced 3 rims a year.. cost containment, come on down

Or not. If thats the agenda anyway

[Guest]

Are the new rims lighter? or is there a ruling for the weight of the wheels? If the rims are lighter I could see the advantage in getting the new ones, apart from the look good factor.

[Vanilla Dice]

Brake cooling, ease of mechanice pulling off the wheels... all unquantifiable stuff.

[Guest]

If its better, and the teams can afford it then why not?

[Vanilla Dice]

Its money the teams dont need to spend. Like industrial sized coffee machines for the transporter

$29k would fund a pretty good state formula ford championship in running costs for the year if you didnt crash it, and owned the car & engines.

[Guest]

It pains me to say it, but I think I nearly agree with you Vanilla Dice

[alfacors]

I see your point VD, but is there anything in the rules to state the team must have the tyres on rims? Perhaps they simply store the tyres and get them mounted up for when they go testing, or for racing?

[billy bigtime]

Just because they have that many tyres doesn't mean they need that many rims.

[Guest]

Another valid point

[RotorFan]

The tyres wouldn't deform if not on the rim?

[Pirtek_Falcon-1]

Theyre obviously an advantage or these teams wouldnt use them. I wouldnt imagine the teams would need that many rims. Why do they need different rims for wet tyres?

[alfacors]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

The tyres wouldn't deform if not on the rim?

Nope. The sidewalls will be stiff enough to maintain shape for a long time. Normal car tyres are stored the same way, and they have much softer sidewalls

[Vanilla Dice]

They dont need 80 rims per car, but the hot shots do buy that many... or have accumulated that many over the years.

Would you like to be Britek or PCR, new to the main game, not contracted to Dunlop directly, and have to wait for 28 other cars to be fitted before you in a mad rubber rush.

Maybe this is a source of team competitive advantage

Certainly there are sets of wets mounted & ready to go at most race meetings, plus the old junky rims and rubber to go travelling

SBR arent using them, so there cant be much to them besides the marketing hype

[lookleft]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Dice

... or have accumulated that many over the years.

....

There is your answer. Would need to see the receipt to believe ANY team changed over all stock in one foul swoop. List price isn't always purchase price. We might even see the odd "old" rim make the grid in under the right circumstances.

The growth in the second tier series would have also generated a market for "second hand" wheels thus mitigating the cost of the new wheels.

Finally, they don't NEED new chassis and/or paintjobs every year but to keep "interest" and generate buzz all kinds of things are done. Not may argue the new rims LOOK worse. I know it adds nothing to the motor sport side but TC will tell you it is about entertinement and "the product".

[Vanilla Dice]

A wheel is a wheel is a wheel. It stops the car falling on the road.

As long as it doesnt crack (cue TecnoMagnesio) anything that holds the car up without blocking too much air to the brakes should be fine for use.

Is it a marketing tool, an attempt to put a seed of doubt in a teams mind that the new 888 wheels are something special, and we need them too so we can go fast like Craig? Could be...

In the Sierra days, I thought the prettiest and most practical wheels were the Ronal units we saw on the Miedecke and later Francevic cars.. they had good air cooling and were pretty light for their time... and were cast as opposed to joined like the BBS versions..

But Brock, Waldock and co picked the DJR wheels, which looked ok, but had no technical value other than aesthetics.. maybe it was a simpler time and we didnt understand all that..

[xrystl]

I have been to the DJR workshop on a few occasions , their tyres were in racks with the bar code visible and marked as to where on the car it was fitted and where it was used , the tyres were not mounted on rims - a rack with bare rims was across from the tyres ; didn't count the tyres but about 30 seems likely with about 20 rims in the rack - the vehicles and equipment were on there way to Bathurst for the 04 race so the wheels and tyres in the workshop were surplus to what was on the cars (including development series) and the spares in the truck. Lots of wheels and tyres in my arithmetic.

[BlueMax]

We are in the era of who has the most toys win. In 1976 one Allan Moffat had 20 rims and 30 tyres in the truck that got burnt down in the Adelaide hills and that was considered excess. Nothing compared to what some teams now have in there stocks.

[GTRMagic]

If a team uses 5 or 6 sets of tyres in a typical 1000km Bathurst race, thats 24 wheels right there... all of which are usually mounted before race start... plus the wets plus the travellers...

It must be a lot easier now the wheels are interchangeable front to rear too...

[WebberForWDC]

If the new ones are more expensive than what's the point of them, aren't T8 supposed to be pushing for cost containment????

[Pro Racer]

it wil be the same with holden now hrt atre using the six spoke version of the t8 rims i bet they will show them off mid year and hve half the holden teams using them by years end.

[Phase3]

Who Cares? If you need to contain costs, buy the cheaper units, problem solved! I fail to see the problem here except for maybe closet communists winging about the teams that have more than them.

Why don't you aim your cost containment nazi at an area where no cheaper alternative exists, rather than dribble on for no good reason? Oh, Boo Hoo, Team X has an industial coffee machine and we have to drink instant

[DKGandBH]

It is interesting that in the "blueprintedness" of this sport, that there isn't a standard wheel.

Top teams will go for the better wheel no matter what the cost. If it aids cooling / tyre changing / less unsprung weight etc...

strange...

DKGandBH

[Vanilla Dice]

Originally Posted by Phase3

Who Cares? If you need to contain costs, buy the cheaper units, problem solved! I fail to see the problem here except for maybe closet communists winging about the teams that have more than them.

Why don't you aim your cost containment nazi at an area where no cheaper alternative exists, rather than dribble on for no good reason? Oh, Boo Hoo, Team X has an industial coffee machine and we have to drink instant

Communists? Kmsport hasnt posted on this thread

You fail to see the point. TEGA is belting on about cost containment, and these new wheels are dearer than the old ones, for a zero sum gain.

Why not make it a control part, with a moratorium.. when the VE Commodore comes out, the offsets will change again anyway.. why not legislate now..

Why burn money when you dont have to..

Me, I like Instant Coffee.. Moccona FreezeDried

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Dice

Its money the teams dont need to spend. Like industrial sized coffee machines for the transporter

$29k would fund a pretty good state formula ford championship in running costs for the year if you didnt crash it, and owned the car & engines.

Team Murphy are looking at cost control - what sort of hourly rate would you charge - cost effective VD, a career change - Murph would see you as value ... ??

[Vanilla Dice]

I am as valuable as the amount someone is willing to pay for my services. If I am not valuable at that level, I am either offered a lower rate, or no rate at all.

Simple supply & demand economics.

As for Mr Murphy.. he is a nice bloke..