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Old 21 Nov 2018, 22:47 (Ref:3864873)   #1451
Steel Wheels
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Steel Wheels should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSteel Wheels should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Is it me or hasn’t this ‘discussion’ been had before?

On the announcements today both good additions to the grid. Rob should do well, think he’d benefit from a team-mate with BTCC experience. Daniel has a great opportunity at Ciceley & the chance to show what another Clio graduate can do
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Old 21 Nov 2018, 23:52 (Ref:3864880)   #1452
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
team gardex is just a name. its not an actual race team.
the tordoffs dont own a licence.

by that definition, Trade Price Cars who have confirmed they bought 2x TBL from AMD are not a real race team as they are a second hand car dealer paying AMD to run some cars for them.


Your definition of what constitutes a "team" is a bit too black and white
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 00:32 (Ref:3864887)   #1453
touring fan01
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
by that definition, Trade Price Cars who have confirmed they bought 2x TBL from AMD are not a real race team as they are a second hand car dealer paying AMD to run some cars for them.


Your definition of what constitutes a "team" is a bit too black and white
bottom line is still the same.
tordoff doesn’t own a licence
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 06:49 (Ref:3864914)   #1454
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
bottom line is still the same.
tordoff doesn’t own a licence
Have you asked him?
I was responding to your comment that "team gardx racing" can't be a team as its just a name so can't hold a TBL

Last edited by btccbloke; 22 Nov 2018 at 07:00.
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 08:04 (Ref:3864927)   #1455
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The Tordoff family COULD own a TBL. I do not know if they do or do not.

Please no more of this "team" nonsense otherwise I'll feel the need to write war and peace... a heavily abridged version below:

Today I could form a company or pay a company to form a company or indeed buy a ready formed company off the shelf. Within days that would be a legit entity registered with Companies House.

My new company "Team I've Got A Race Team With A Name That's Bigger Than Everyone Else Racing Racing with the TeleTubbies and Marigold Gloves" could then buy a TBL if anyone were offering one for sale. Whether that company owns a racecar, a workshop, a spanner or employees any staff or not.

I'm hoping we can get back to rumours and news of who is/ isn't driving what for whom...
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 08:07 (Ref:3864929)   #1456
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
The Tordoff family COULD own a TBL. I do not know if they do or do not.

Please no more of this "team" nonsense otherwise I'll feel the need to write war and peace... a heavily abridged version below:

Today I could form a company or pay a company to form a company or indeed buy a ready formed company off the shelf. Within days that would be a legit entity registered with Companies House.

My new company "Team I've Got A Race Team With A Name That's Bigger Than Everyone Else Racing Racing with the TeleTubbies and Marigold Gloves" could then buy a TBL if anyone were offering one for sale. Whether that company owns a racecar, a workshop, a spanner or employees any staff or not.
Will you be running the much rumoured Kia entry?
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 09:33 (Ref:3864940)   #1457
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Originally Posted by Jiiiiiiim View Post
Tordoff has one for Team Gardex,
IF Tordoff/GardX is in possession of their own TBL - it would be interesting to know where this came from?

The 2017 allocation confirmed that they were not in possession of a TBL for that season.

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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Team GardX is a new team formed by the Tordoff business empire. [...]. It owns a TBL which is strongly rumoured as having been bought from BMR.
Motorbase had 3 TBLs in 2017 (one loaned from Welch).
The official BTCC release regarding Price's withdrawal in 2018 confirmed that BMR were dropping from 4 to 3 TBLs.
So realistically, if Tordoff had a TBL in 2018, it can only be the ex-Welch Motorsport TBL?
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3864942)   #1458
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Motorbase had 3 TBLs in 2017 (one loaned from Welch).
The official BTCC release regarding Price's withdrawal in 2018 confirmed that BMR were dropping from 4 to 3 TBLs.
So realistically, if Tordoff had a TBL in 2018, it can only be the ex-Welch Motorsport TBL?
team hard bought the welch licence at the end of 2017
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 09:59 (Ref:3864943)   #1459
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
by that definition, Trade Price Cars who have confirmed they bought 2x TBL from AMD are not a real race team as they are a second hand car dealer paying AMD to run some cars for them.


Your definition of what constitutes a "team" is a bit too black and white
This is exactly what they are, the cars are based in the AmD workshop, prepped and run by AmD staff using AmD kit
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:19 (Ref:3864947)   #1460
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This is exactly what they are, the cars are based in the AmD workshop, prepped and run by AmD staff using AmD kit
Thank you! So yes they are effectively a TEAM! which owns TBL's!... even tho they have no workshop, racing staff, or racing equipment, Yes AMD are preparing the cars but for all we know they could take their TBLs to Team Dynamics next year (for example!), these TBLs belong to a "team" even tho this "team" is subcontracting all the work!
The previous poster was suggesting "Team Gardx Racing" were not a team and therefore couldn't possibly own a TBL because they are not a team themselves... which is nonsense!
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:22 (Ref:3864950)   #1461
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Originally Posted by btccbloke View Post
Thank you! So yes they are effectively a TEAM! which owns TBL's!
The previous poster was suggesting "Team Gardx Racing" were not a team and therefore couldn't possibly own a TBL because they are not a team themselves... which is nonsense!
but the bottom line is the same, that tordoff or team gardx racing dont own a TBL
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:24 (Ref:3864953)   #1462
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
but the bottom line is the same, that tordoff or team gardx racing dont own a TBL
Quick question. Do you work for TOCA ?
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:26 (Ref:3864955)   #1463
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
IF Tordoff/GardX is in possession of their own TBL - it would be interesting to know where this came from?

The 2017 allocation confirmed that they were not in possession of a TBL for that season.



Motorbase had 3 TBLs in 2017 (one loaned from Welch).
The official BTCC release regarding Price's withdrawal in 2018 confirmed that BMR were dropping from 4 to 3 TBLs.
So realistically, if Tordoff had a TBL in 2018, it can only be the ex-Welch Motorsport TBL?
The 4th BMR TBL from 2017 was used for the 3rd Motorbase entry for Team Gardex this year, as the ‘loaned’ TBL from Welch they used in 2017 for their 3rd car was indeed sold by Welch to Team HARD for their 4th entry.

Hence the story of Team Gardex/the Tordoff’s buying the TBL seemed to fit. Mind you it could just be the case that the Tordoff’s money from Gardex allowed Bartie to purchase the TBL, so in effect they bankrolled the TBL purchase!
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:33 (Ref:3864960)   #1464
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Blimey, my head hurts with all of this! I feel it's going to be a long cold winter up until media day! (Or whatever they're going to call it next year).
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:36 (Ref:3864962)   #1465
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
but the bottom line is the same, that tordoff or team gardx racing dont own a TBL
Yeah we kind of get that as you've stated it about a thousand times now, but your reasoning for them not having one is flawed!

I do believe you as I have no knowledge on this particular case, but you have to acknowledge the fact they 'could' own a TBL, as TPR, Simpson and Laser Tools do as numerous folk have pointed out above.
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:41 (Ref:3864965)   #1466
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Originally Posted by Jiiiiiiim View Post
The 4th BMR TBL from 2017 was used for the 3rd Motorbase entry for Team Gardex this year,
I notice an error in my previous post - BMR dropped from 3 to 2 TBLs at the time of Price's departure (forgive me 10/10ths for I have sinned).


GardX/Tordoff funding a TBL, given that they had taken a sabbatical the season before, seems hard to understand - but plausible.

The timeline would also fit - as initially Tordoff was testing an Audi S3 in Nov 17, and Motorbase confirmed (at the time of the Jackson press release) that their line up was complete at 2 cars.

Whether GardX/Tordoff took a TBL they owned to Motorbase, or their involvement encouraged Motorbase to acquire a 3rd is unclear at present.

Either way, I see it as no different to Laser Tools having Ciceley support. Or Simpson having Speedworks/TD/Eurotech support. BMR managed to keep hold of two TBLs last season without actually owning a car (or much else in terms of assets it seems).
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 10:45 (Ref:3864966)   #1467
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Originally Posted by Jiiiiiiim View Post
The 4th BMR TBL from 2017 was used for the 3rd Motorbase entry for Team Gardex this year, as the ‘loaned’ TBL from Welch they used in 2017 for their 3rd car was indeed sold by Welch to Team HARD for their 4th entry.

Hence the story of Team Gardex/the Tordoff’s buying the TBL seemed to fit. Mind you it could just be the case that the Tordoff’s money from Gardex allowed Bartie to purchase the TBL, so in effect they bankrolled the TBL purchase!
2018 motorbase 3rd TBL was a loan from BMR.
BMR have since sold that TBL to power maxed racing and power maxed also bought BMRs other TBL mid season as they had to give their 2 loan ones back to gow.
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 11:04 (Ref:3864967)   #1468
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
2018 motorbase 3rd TBL was a loan from BMR.
BMR have since sold that TBL to power maxed racing and power maxed also bought BMRs other TBL mid season as they had to give their 2 loan ones back to gow.
Thanks, that would answer why Adam Weaver was so confident he’d have both loaned TBL’s handed back to TOCA by the end of this season. The ‘Price’ mid season purchase was reported in the media but obviously not the other ‘sale’ as of yet!
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 11:19 (Ref:3864971)   #1469
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Lots of phallic waving going on at the moment in here....

Matt Salisbury hinted at behind the scenes moves this week too.
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 11:44 (Ref:3864974)   #1470
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Interesting article in MN about Rob Collards recovery. Mentions Robs focus for 2019 is in his boy, though he’s love to be back. Ricky is looking at International GT’s & single seater options.

Could it be all change at WSR?
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 12:35 (Ref:3864982)   #1471
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Why does it even matter who owns a tbl or not because with all the behind closed doors loaning and selling of tbl’s it doesn’t matter and no one will know where everyone one of them are until the entry list is out, it just seems like a good topic on gear for people to argue about and make them sound like billy big balls
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 12:38 (Ref:3864983)   #1472
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
but the bottom line is the same, that tordoff or team gardx racing dont own a TBL
I bow to your opinion but the bottom line is, you don't know that anymore than anyone else who does not work for TOCA!

Your logic of who can own a TBL and what a Team is, is completely flawed as many of us have demonstrated.

As your obviously so "in the know" perhaps you can even advise us of the official whereabouts of the 30/32 licences then?
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 13:00 (Ref:3864988)   #1473
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Will you be running the much rumoured Kia entry?
Sssshh, trying to keep that quiet 'til media but not fans day.

Back into hiding in my cupboard Mr P for a couple more months 😉😁
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3864991)   #1474
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BMR have since sold that TBL to power maxed racing and power maxed also bought BMRs other TBL mid season as they had to give their 2 loan ones back to gow.
That would differ to what was reported officially by TOCA 27-Jul-18:

'The TBL relating to that entry has been sold, with approval from TOCA, by Team BMR to Power Maxed Racing, in order to replace one of their TOCA-loaned TBLs.'

If PMR were already in possession of one TBL, why would TOCA report them as having plural?

On 1 Dec 17, TOCA confirmed that both TBLs were with a single team:

'There is a maximum of 32 TBLs – 30 of which are currently held by the teams and two permanently held by TOCA, with those two TOCA-held licences having been allocated to a team for 2018.'

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Why does it even matter who owns a tbl or not because with all the behind closed doors loaning and selling of tbl’s it doesn’t matter and no one will know where everyone one of them are until the entry list is out, it just seems like a good topic on gear for people to argue about and make them sound like billy big balls
It matters because, when discussing where drivers/teams might end up in 2019, the possession of TBLs has a big influence.
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Old 22 Nov 2018, 13:18 (Ref:3864996)   #1475
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Interesting article in MN about Rob Collards recovery. Mentions Robs focus for 2019 is in his boy, though he’s love to be back. Ricky is looking at International GT’s & single seater options.

Could it be all change at WSR?
There are rumours for all 3 drivers being changed so far!

Think Turks & Jordan will stay but think you're right about the Collard name disappearing. I can very much see Ash Sutton taking that seat!
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