2020 Silly Season

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

But it’s very unlikely Sainz will come back now

Isn't he a graduate from the scheme - who although is no longer on contract with them, was never really 'dropped'?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

As Albon and Kvyat have proved. Oh, hang on........

Albon, Kvyat and also Sete Camara now: he was in the RB junior program in 2016 but was dropped when he only finished 11th in European F3 that year

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Isn't he a graduate from the scheme - who although is no longer on contract with them, was never really 'dropped'?

He’s no longer backed by them and I think Marko has said it’s very unlikely he will be again. I think Bourdais was the last driver signed to their F1 teams who was not part of their program

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And the problem is once they have been dropped from the scheme, it's very unlikely you will be bought back

Originally Posted by S griffin

But it’s very unlikely Sainz will come back now

Originally Posted by S griffin

He’s no longer backed by them and I think Marko has said it’s very unlikely he will be again.

I'm lost on the point you are making.

Are you talking about drivers being dropped from the programme never being brought back?
Or drivers graduating from the programme not returning to the fold?

[S griffin]

Sigh. Drivers not on the program, whether they were dropped or simply not renewed

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sigh. Drivers not on the program, whether they were dropped or simply not renewed

Don't sigh when YOU don't articulate your point.

Sorry but Sainz moved on and was NOT dropped so your previous point is moot at best and ill-informed at worst. The remaining drivers with the Red Bull program except Max have been dropped and brought back at least once so your point doesn't hold.

[S griffin]

Yeah, but I do wonder if that’s going to happen again. Certainly being a Red Bull junior is something you should approach with caution

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, but I do wonder if that’s going to happen again. Certainly being a Red Bull junior is something you should approach with caution

Whether what's going to happen again?

[S griffin]

Whether drivers are going to bought back that are no longer on the program. I’m sure Marko said something along the lines that Sainz wouldn’t be back on the program. And Horner has also said it’s very unlikely Ricciardo would come back to RBR.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, but I do wonder if that’s going to happen again. Certainly being a Red Bull junior is something you should approach with caution

Can you name a junior program that gave more drivers a chance in F1?

out of the current grid 7 out of 20 drivers were Red Bull juniors

[S griffin]

Yeah, not saying it doesn’t have benefits, but it is a very ruthless scheme and you do need to watch your back at times

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, not saying it doesn’t have benefits, but it is a very ruthless scheme and you do need to watch your back at times

So it's junior racing without Daddy's fat checkbook? That's just stating the obvious man

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yeah, not saying it doesn’t have benefits, but it is a very ruthless scheme and you do need to watch your back at times

You need results, if you have results you won't be dropped

But again: can you name any other junior program that brought as many drivers to F1?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

You need results, if you have results you won't be dropped

But again: can you name any other junior program that brought as many drivers to F1?

I can.

Marlboro, Camel, Stewart.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I can.

Marlboro, Camel, Stewart.

And wasn't there a French program that support the likes of Alain Prost?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by chavez

And wasn't there a French program that support the likes of Alain Prost?

Ah yes good one

The Elf Volant!

Thinking back, actually not sure Stewart did get all that many into F1 itself but certainly assisted many drivers along the way who otherwise may not have had a chance.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

But again: can you name any other junior program that brought as many drivers to F1?

Renault Sport Academy:
Albon,
d'Ambrosio,
di Grassi,
Grosjean,
Kovalainen,
Kubica,
Maldonado,
Pic

McLaren Young Driver Programme:
Hamilton,
van der Garde,
Albon,
Magnussen,
Vandoorne,
Norris,
Sette Câmara,


What is also common is they have just as many drivers who depart the programme never to return. It's not a unique feature of Red Bull to have young drivers who don't end up driving their own car in F1 full time.

Some make it, some move elsewhere, some fall short.

[S griffin]

Thing is RBR and STR tend to go with drivers that are part of the programme only. Other teams seem more flexible with who they pick

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Thing is RBR and STR tend to go with drivers that are part of the programme only. Other teams seem more flexible with who they pick

It is true, a lot of drivers for RBR have graduated from the junior programme.
So does this mean it is a good thing or bad.
I'm struggling to keep up with the point you are trying to make here;

You've claimed that getting dropped from the scheme means you never return, despite evidence to the contrary (same is true of most schemes).
You've said that drivers need to watch your back because it is a ruthless scheme (same is true of most schemes).

You are now saying that the F1 team is routinely filled with drivers from the scheme. Is that not the whole point?
They have established a programme that allows them to develop young drivers, with the most promising getting a seat in their F1 operation.

Could you clarify what your point regarding the Red Bull Young Driver scheme is please? Is it good or bad, and why?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Renault Sport Academy:
Albon,
d'Ambrosio,
di Grassi,
Grosjean,
Kovalainen,
Kubica,
Maldonado,
Pic

out of those drivers only Kovalainen,Kubica and Maldonado ever drove a Renault(Lotus) f1 car, the rest doen not count since Renault did not bring them to F1

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

McLaren Young Driver Programme:
Hamilton,
van der Garde,
Albon,
Magnussen,
Vandoorne,
Norris,
Sette Câmara,

Van Der Garde and Albon were not brought to F1 by McLaren, Sete Camara is only a reserve driver and is not really in F1 at the moment.

[S griffin]

The Red Bull scheme has done a lot of good, but at the same time it’s not something to be entered into lightly. At the same time the pressure is really on to perform which doesn’t help. If you’re a star like Max or Seb it’s ok, but you really have to watch out, as both Kvyat and Gasly have discovered you can be dropped from the big team just like that.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

out of those drivers only Kovalainen,Kubica and Maldonado ever drove a Renault(Lotus) f1 car, the rest doen not count since Renault did not bring them to F1.

Grosjean raced for them.
Jerome and Lucas tested several times i think?

Fact is these drivers got to F1 level thanks to the support. Not sure it matters who they actually drove for?

[Casper]

I don't want to start a new thread so I will lob this here. It occurs to me that those drivers who have in the last few years made sure they were available & free for 2021 and the new regs might just have scored an own goal if the present regs are carried over to next year.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The Red Bull scheme has done a lot of good, but at the same time it’s not something to be entered into lightly. At the same time the pressure is really on to perform which doesn’t help. If you’re a star like Max or Seb it’s ok, but you really have to watch out, as both Kvyat and Gasly have discovered you can be dropped from the big team just like that.

But without Red Bull backing their careers may well have stalled (or ended) a lot sooner. Some of these drivers wouldn't have had the budget to get out of the national formulas without Red Bull backing. Yes they're ruthless but for a lot of drivers it's a case of take a chance with Red Bull or look for another career.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Casper

I don't want to start a new thread so I will lob this here. It occurs to me that those drivers who have in the last few years made sure they were available & free for 2021 and the new regs might just have scored an own goal if the present regs are carried over to next year.

Interesting thoughts, I think I get your drift but please could you go a bit further?