[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix 2019: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 20 of 21

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Really?

I say that one is 100% Vettels fault. Leclerc had the ability and option to avoid Vettels stupidity and chose not to do so. But it remains Vettels fault.

That's what I thought at the time. I'll need to watch it again.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought it was 50/50.

50% Sebastian and 50% Vettel, yes.

[Greem]

Just watching Binotto being interviewed. He's a sensible man:

• We shouldn't judge in the heat of the moment
• We need to analyse what happened in detail
• Both drivers should feel sorry for the outcome for the team

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Greem

Vettel typically terse in the media pen. He really doesn't deal with these adverse situations well, where Leclerc seemed annoyed but remained eloquent.

We really need a fly-on-the-wall in the Ferrari motorhome this evening.

You won't need to be a fly, be within a mile and I'm sure you'll hear it. Red Bull should be having around LeClerc more often and hinting if Vettel isn't let go

[broadrun96]

Is this the first race with the fast lap point wasted? I don't remember anyone outside the top 10 fastest so far but I can't say I've got the best memory

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Greem

Just watching Binotto being interviewed. He's a sensible man:

• We shouldn't judge in the heat of the moment
• We need to analyse what happened in detail
• Both drivers should feel sorry for the outcome for the team

Yes, they should put him in charge. Oh no, wait a minute...

Leadership before now and this wouldn’t have happened today.

[steve nielsen]

No / Driver 44 - Lewis Hamilton
Competitor Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport
Time 15:44
Session Race
Fact Incident between car 44 and car 23 in turn 10.
Offence Breach of Appendix L, Chapter IV Article 2 of the FIA International Sporting Code.
Decision 5 second time penalty imposed after the race in accordance with Article 38.3 of the
FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
(5 seconds added to elapsed race time).
2 penalty points imposed (total of 4 in the 12 month period)

so Sainz has his first podium but was not on that podium

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

so Sainz has his first podium but was not on that podium

Sainz under investigation for using DRS under yellow.

[Taxi645]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlxA2nEe0gM (1:05m)

Just saying....

I'll stick to what I've said earlier about Vettel, if the situation gets too hot he just looses his marbles way too often.


Extremely happy for Gasly! Everyone is saying he couldn't cope mentally next to Verstappen, but I disagree, for the most part it I think it was the very unpredictable RB car of the first half that also didn't suit driving style. Back in the TR and he is instantly back to his old form.

Feel very sorry for Albon. I must admit there is certainly progression in his driving. Racecraft is excellent, just needs to find some extra pace the next season.


Bottas was his usual self.

Very gracious of Hamilton to admit fault. For me it was not that clear yet. Certainly I don't think it's worth 2 penalty points. It's was a risky move, but not reckless.

RIC- MAG could've been a race incident as well.

[Greem]

The way things are going, 4 or 5 drivers look like they could be given penalties for use of DRS under yellow flags. If the worst case comes to fruition, Hamilton will be 3rd again!

[djinvicta]

https://drivetribe.com/p/hamilton-re...rce=organic_F1

Hamilton now 7th...

[steve nielsen]

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Really?

I say that one is 100% Vettels fault. Leclerc had the ability and option to avoid Vettels stupidity and chose not to do so. But it remains Vettels fault.

Apostrophes, love, APOSTROPHES! 'Vettel's'!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Get the pictures now before they come to take it away and give it to Kimi.

[wnut]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYB4fDz5Vc

Footage of Vettel Leclerc contact.

[S griffin]

Let me start by saying that Gasly did an excellent job being best of the rest most of the race and Sainz, great race from the back. However by rights they should not be celebrating their first podium. Albon should be. Not because of the incident with Hamilton, that’s racing, but because of this ridiculous SC free pass rule for lapped cars, that has everything to do with luck and nothing to do with skill and therefore does not belong in Formula 1 Grand Prix racing. And the fact the SC was unnecessary makes it worse. If it hadn’t been for that, Alexander would have rejoined in 3rd, with everyone behind him a lap back and therefore would have taken his first podium, with Gasly an excellent 4th, ahead of Sainz in 5th. Instead Albon ends up with nothing thanks to a farcical rule more than anything. If I was in charge of F1 tomorrow, this would be the first rule I would get rid of. Apart from IMHO making a mockery of the results, it wastes unnecessary laps behind the SC

About the Hamilton/Albon incident, seemed Lewis wasn’t quite inside enough, even if Alex left the door open and if you were going to punish Danny, you would have to punish him too. But of course the bigger problem is that most contact results in a penalty

Vettel, what was he doing? He was taking a risk going for that tiny gap round the outside, then just drives into his team mate. And the fact he didn’t hold his hands up makes things worse. I would not be surprised if he gets his P45 before the end of the season, they can always get a replacement. Alonso they may or may not be interested in, but they can always give Hulk a bell. After all, he’ll probably be cheap at this time

Good win for Max, at least a backmarker didn’t completely ruin things for him this time! He’s really looking good atm. He’s been on top form all season. And well done to Alfa, good quali, then both cars in the points in the race. Although what happened to Haas after such a good quali?

[Adam43]

Look at the length of the post!

[steve_r]

Vettel hasn't done anything stupid for a few races, so I guess it was time to remind everyone what he is really like.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Let me start by saying that Gasly did an excellent job being best of the rest most of the race and Sainz, great race from the back. However by rights they should not be celebrating their first podium. Albon should be. Not because of the incident with Hamilton, that’s racing, but because of this ridiculous SC free pass rule for lapped cars, that has everything to do with luck and nothing to do with skill and therefore does not belong in Formula 1 Grand Prix racing. And the fact the SC was unnecessary makes it worse. If it hadn’t been for that, Alexander would have rejoined in 3rd, with everyone behind him a lap back and therefore would have taken his first podium, with Gasly an excellent 4th, ahead of Sainz in 5th. Instead Albon ends up with nothing thanks to a farcical rule more than anything. If I was in charge of F1 tomorrow, this would be the first rule I would get rid of. Apart from IMHO making a mockery of the results, it wastes unnecessary laps behind the SC

Don't get me started! I'll settle for "I agree."

Incidents:

I thought the penalty was a little bit tough on Riciardo but Magnussen did leave enough room. Dan was off-line and understeered into him.

Vettel is back to his old ways. Leclerc is faster and has better racecraft. Vettel can't take that so tries to intimidate, but he usually does it in a clumsy way. Leclerc made it clear after Austria that he would be no-more-Mr-Niceguy. So Vettel tries to squeeze and Leclerc holds his line, probably thinking it would be a little tap, Vettel would run wide and all would be well. Instead both Ferraris proved to be unexpectedly fragile. It has to be said, the Vettel-jink was much smaller that in Turkey 2010.

I would put the Hamilton-Albon incident about 70-30 down to Hamilton. but it takes two to tango. I think there is a clever bit of psychology going on there. Taking it all on the chin has really cost Hamilton next to nothing because the championship is all done and dusted. However he's shown an honesty and humility that just might tip a balance in his favour when something crops up some time in the future.

[TrapezeArtist]

At the time I didn't really twig the magnitude of the Mercedes error by bringing in Hamilton for tyres near the end. It was only when I read James Allinson's comments and thought back over it that it became obvious. There would be so few laps left when the safety car came in that a two place drop while pitting was too big a price to pay. But never mind, they were obviously handing out the hold-my-hand-up pills at Mercedes this weekend.

Mario Spaghetti really has a big driver management problem on his hands. He managed to lay down the law on what would be said in post-race interviews and both drivers gave us some bland non-comments.

Given the string of mistakes over the past two seasons, there is no evidence to suggest that Vettel is going to get out of his problems. However I can't see him accepting any sort of No 2 role. On the other hand, leaving now would be just as much of a humiliation. So what other options are there?

On the other hand, Leclerc is clearly the real deal, and still learning at a very rapid rate. In Austria, he was too nice and lost out. In Monza, he swung a little too far the other way, but got away with it. At Interlagos he was hard but fair, and only lost out because of the fragility of the car. He made a big mistake in Baku qualifying, but his qualifying since the summer break has been exceptional.

Ferrari has a long history of employing a clear No1 driver and a brown-nose No 2. Presumably they knew they were deviating from that philosophy when they put Vettel and Leclerc together, or perhaps they didn't! I don't know if any other team could manage the present rivalry any better, but clearly Ferrari will find it difficult.

[Lancsbreaker]

Thinking about it in the cold light of day (and by heck it was cold this morning!) I remain convinced that whilst we saw an exciting and engrossing race, the first SC period was (a) totally unnecessary - if anything was needed a VSC would have covered it - the car was way off line and Bottas had done a good job of parking it where it could easily be recovered, and (b) ridiculously protracted - doing all the wave-past was again unnecessary.

[chunterer]

Vettel clearly illustrated yet again that he is more likely to throw results away than get them in the bag.

My stance for the last 2-3 years has been that his abilities and results are not befitting of a 4x champion and unacceptable for a top team driver.

Clearly he has become a 'diva' and believes that he is automatically entitled to do and say what he likes.

I can only assume that his contract says he is defacto Number 1 with some other favourable clauses within it is why the management hasn't fired him. I also suspect Leclerc was signed with certain assurances about parity as long as he proved speed and willingness to play the team game which he has done.

With this in mind it maybe a lot more difficult for Binotto and co. to just sort this out in team discussions, if it was these things would not keep happening.

Vettel's driving and demeanour smacks of desperately trying to cling on to his status, knowing full well that consistent defeat at this stage would make it hard to stay in F1. He is clearly not able to accept any changes in priorities at Ferrari.

I mean, would you sign this driver if you wanted a strong, composed team leader?!

Niko Hulkenberg could yet get invited to continue his F1 career...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Thinking about it in the cold light of day (and by heck it was cold this morning!) I remain convinced that whilst we saw an exciting and engrossing race, the first SC period was (a) totally unnecessary - if anything was needed a VSC would have covered it - the car was way off line and Bottas had done a good job of parking it where it could easily be recovered, and (b) ridiculously protracted - doing all the wave-past was again unnecessary.

The first SC seemed odd. Bottas did a great job in where he parked the car. My speculation is twofold. First, maybe the recovery vehicle had to peek just a bit beyond the barrier to get at the car? Second, we seem to continue to have issues in which drivers can't respect the need to be careful for local yellows (such as car recovery). Both may have triggered the SC.

Originally Posted by chunterer

Vettel's driving and demeanour smacks of desperately trying to cling on to his status, knowing full well that consistent defeat at this stage would make it hard to stay in F1. He is clearly not able to accept any changes in priorities at Ferrari.

One of the commentators made this point and I suspect it is accurate, but I think Vettel thought it was his right to challenge for the front. He was then surprised by the pass by Leclerc. That created a red-mist moment in that "Leclerc clearly didn't understand his place", so Vettel was going to pass AND do it harshly to send a message. Unfortunately it didn't send the right message!

Overall, the last 20 laps was fun to watch. It's unfortunate that much of the "good racing" required multiple SC periods to set the stage. It clearly was showing much more performance parity for the top cars and that is a good thing.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Is Ferrari better served by letting everything just play out this season (even if it ends in tears) rather than risk letting these issues fester during the winter and bubble to the surface next season?

There may be opportunity here.

How they handle this now may be far more important to their chances next year then currently may seem the case.

[S griffin]

Well I think it’s clear that Ferrari might not be so keen to make Vettel the clear no 1 now. It might not make Seb happy, but then it’s not his team