[TV] Speed Dreams BBC2 Sunday 10pm

[RickP:Clio51]

Not to be missed, not least because there's a 10-10ther in it... (!)

Seriously, Bonneville is just the coolest place on the planet if you are a petrolhead... if you get the chance to visit: GRAB IT!

Taster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHj4...ature=youtu.be

So 1st episode this Sunday, 10pm, final episode a week later.
Cheers
Rick

[Aysedasi]

Looks good! Thanks for the heads-up Rick.

[The Fat Clerk]

The recorder is set.

[BertMk2]

Very interesting program - looking forward to the next one. Some top quality shed based engineering going on there - some of that machining was very impressive to say the least.

[chunder]

So, so much beter than the heroes and their celebrity rubbish that was on over Christmas.

THis was a great little show, full of fabulous people, some really genuine geniuses with metal, and I will also say some not far from me in Hertfordshire which made me rather proud!

Well put together, not too over dramtic with stupid reliaty tv music all the time, and genuinely tear jerking witht he lad who died and all his mates clubbed together to finish the bike oiff that he started.

GHet in lads and hope the next show gets us a few records

THe one that did make me laugh was the hedge fund millionaire who would only back it if he could drive it, he can sod off back to Switzerland for me, but the rest of them were proper!!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by chunder

THe one that did make me laugh was the hedge fund millionaire who would only back it if he could drive it, he can sod off back to Switzerland for me, but the rest of them were proper!!

You could tell him that yourself.

[chunder]

Nah, fair play to the lad he is living his dream, but his dream, is very, very different to everyone elses in the show.

Or maybe he funded the show too? I dont know, but though the bike is interesting all the otehrs are of a similar level, shed, blokes with beards etc.

That is not of the same level.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

Nah, fair play to the lad he is living his dream, but his dream, is very, very different to everyone elses in the show.

Is it? I thought it was very much a case of different means but the same reasons for doing it - they'd all been bitten by the Bonneville bug.

And as Tim says - you can ask Rick yourself - he's a tenths user (and started this thread) .

[The SpeCTator]

Amazing that Burt Munro still holds his class record, established in 1967
Those Kiwi's were well advanced in engineering

[chunder]

Indeed they are. some of the stuff he did was staggering, as was the John Britten series of bikes the Denco and the V1000, same sort of thing.

He couldnt buy the stuff in so ended up making it all himself, some Kiwi's really do make everyone else look a bit short sighted

And, as I said earlier, the show to me came across as a bunch of back yard guys in sheds building really quite basic and amateur level bikes, the one the Swiss guy drove wasnt built by him and was not really that amateur, though obviouly well funded and designed.

I suppose it shows an attempt at every level, but for me the main interest is in the guys building the bikes themselves and just going along for the crack and maybe doing somehting special, the two guys who came across as married were a little bit special financially, and the builder was a level above most of the other people on the show engineering wise.

I was always a huge fan af Art Arfons, he was a real make do man, up against the all singing all dancing Breedlove. I loved the fact that Art went out there found an engine he wasnt supposed to have, balanced the turbine blades out and just drive the thing flat out, built in his chicken shed almost!

For me at least, that it was LSR and speed racing is all about.

I have respect for the engineering and sheer scale of an effort that a guy like this is doing, but I just dont find it is heart warming or as good a story, sorry.

It would be a great story on its own perhaps, like the JCB one, or a story on Campbell, Goldenrod even or Mickey Thompson, all guys who went out and broke records in cleverly built cars at some time.

[Al Weyman]

Yeah a good watch when is the next episode on?

[Aysedasi]

A good watch indeed - I just caught up with it. Completely different type of programme to those on Moss and Stewart on after Xmas - but just as entertaining. I'm assuming part 2 is on next Sunday?

[Al Weyman]

Yes just read on another thread, same time same place next Sunday!

[chunder]

Wouldnt surprise me if it was done by the same people as Gears and Tears, has that same human element, more of a tv program than a come dine with me, oh and here is something abotu Jackie Stewart!

[Tim the Grey]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...rth_Episode_1/ for those wishing to see it who missed it.
All I can say is, COME ON YOU BRITS!
I have a yen for the guys from Wheatley with a home brewed 750 monster, the fella with the Indian, and our own Rick Pearson... Though I looked in vain for Nissan badges on the thing?

[PRS RH01]

To Rick and the bike boys live the dream. There is nothing wrong with paying for your fun how many people have there cars prepared for them and run at the circuit. we are not all engineers but we do share a common interest . As a friend now no longer with us us to say "the only difference between us were the number of zeros on his overdraft . I cant wait to see next weeks program .

Peter

Watch this space

[RickP:Clio51]

Thanks for that Chunder.

Sadly the BBC decided to portray it that way for the "banker-bashing" stereotype which is so prevalent in the UK.

The intro was completely made-up. It was my dream to build the car, I sourced everything we needed and since I was already racing with Derek asked him if he and his guys were interested in coming on board. I do not fund the project, it's all done with sponsors who I work very hard to find and keep happy. But the BBC don't like "sponsors" and deliberately used lots of old footage of the car without the stickers on to maintain the myth.

Yes, the closest I get to a spanner is when the boys throw one at me, because as much as I'd like to be, I'm not talented in this area, but I live and breath this project. It's my dream, no-one elses and I certainly didn't BUY my way in.

Don't believe everything you see on TV, and perhaps try and have a few independent thoughts about the world rather than jumping on silly bandwagons/ stereo-types?

I would have hoped my results over the years and my time spent in this community would have earnt me a little more courtesy and respect.

Rick

[chunder]

Fair point fella

If you are portrayed as something you are not then you have more than enough reason to be annoyed.

My main point was that your project, though pursuing the same eventual target was just a bit different to the other ones who seemed to be far more back room, garagista style.

I have little issue with bankers, I dont know any, have never mixed with that group. But the way you were portrayed as the Swiss banker enjoying life on the lakes, then turning up to drive your little toy is either completely wrong or how the production team saw it. I dont know. Are you so sure the anti banker thing would be allowed to pervade a common interest show? You seem to think so so fair enough.

All I can go on is what i saw and that was a team pursuing a vastly more difficult goal in a very different way to a bloke in a shed! tHe people who made the program saw fit to show you up as someone attacking the same goal differently, I doubt I am the only viewer who thought "isnt this guys effort a little different to all these others?"

Programme was excellent nonetheless, and to be hoenst I have had so many earbashings on here over the past few weeks, one more isnt going to hurt.

I wish you luck.

[RickP:Clio51]

Our project is exactly the same... just our shed's a bit bigger because we actually go to Bonneville to attack a major record and run seriously at major speeds. It's still guys making incredible engineering in their spare time and everyone unpaid, just we have to be more professional because if you spend £15k of a sponsors money just to get the car to and from the Salt, you can't afford it to break in the first mile or on the first day.
Sure, if you want to go and ride your bike down the Salt at 80mph, that's fabulous and living the dream is what it's all about. But we've got to be better than the best guys ever with a 1 litre engine... and it's still all done in a little MOT station outside Glasgow. We're building a much more complex machine, having to take a big crew and having to try and stay safe at 300mph. It's not like blatting down the motorway and the Salt is a really tough environment as you'll learn in episode II.

Production team emailed me this morning to say how shocked they are by the occasional reaction like yours, claim it very much wasn't what they tried to portray. But they spent so much time with us, I guess they knew all the story and didn't realise others would join the dots differently. They approached me to make a documentary about "our incredible project", and I introduced them to the bikers to add extra human interest to our story.

Rick

And if you are catching a few earbashings, maybe it's time to reconsider your style of contribution? Only saying....

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by RickP:Clio51

It's not like blatting down the motorway and the Salt is a really tough environment as you'll learn in episode II.

I thought the bloke in the old footage on the bike in only his trunks was a loon! As if the speed isn't enough evidence of that anyway to go at those speeds on that surface in only a pair of speedos That could have gone horribly wrong!

The surface is presumably pretty solid and stable otherwise it'd get ripped up fairly quickly, what's it like on tyres? Are 'normal' compounds ok or are they specific for the surface? Your car has the fin for stability (as do some of the others) but I didn't see anything much in the way of other aero to keep things on the ground - I realise that cornering isn't on the agenda but does the air passing underneath

[chunder]

I do recall from Nobles time there with thrust 2 that solid wheels really didnt work on the salt.

Especially now as the salt has deteriorated quite a lot since the 60's.

Remember that Arfons, Breedlove and Gabelich all used rubber, even Campbell suffered with rubber on some surfaces but his wheels were driven.

Not sure if Don Vesco ever ran at Bonneville with the Turbinator, I know he broke the record at Nevada, but even that pace has deteriorated now, I read in the recent Bloodhound info that Black Rock is not at all suitable for LSR work now.

I think the issue with Bonneville and solid wheels is simple grip, they do slide a lot, but then a bike is a lot lighter than a car.

In reply Rick, I am a bit of a court jester on this forum, some of it justified, some not and by association. but I am not in any way decrying your efforts. I just felt that they were a little different to those of the other people involved. You were in my eyes portrayed as the bloke trying to buy the blue hat, thats how it came across I am afraid.

Seems the prod team did get their wires crossed as I was not aware you introduced them to the other people in the show, for that I eat humble pie.

I would be interested in reading a bit more about the project, if you could send a link or something. LSR is a fascination of mine as you may be able to tell from some of my comments. And I would love to go to Speed Week one time,

Aero wise Bert, Thrust SSC offered some amazing stats, in the Mach.9 runs they found the front wheels doing 200kmh less than the rears!! MEaning the whole front end was only being kept down aerodynamically, and the shock wave was actually melting the rock alkali desert base! Staggering really, what that team managed to do and design.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I realise that cornering isn't on the agenda but does the air passing underneath

and to finish that last sentence (don't know what happened there!)

I realise that cornering isn't on the agenda but does the air passing underneath create a ground effect situation effectively sucking the car onto the ground or are you in danger of getting airflow underneath causing lift and ultimately 'take off'?

Originally Posted by chunder

I am a bit of a court jester on this forum,

Nah, you're just a grumpy old git

Originally Posted by chunder

Aero wise Bert, Thrust SSC offered some amazing stats, in the Mach.9 runs they found the front wheels doing 200kmh less than the rears!! MEaning the whole front end was only being kept down aerodynamically,

Is that a case of the undriven wheels just 'skipping' over the surface and not rotating at the same speed? That could be either lack of downforce or simple lack of mechanical grip couldn't it?

[chunder]

Bert, I think that the issue was with SSC that the surface was quite soft at Black Rock, vey hard on top but not so much underneath/

If you think of a shockwave, on the front of a plane it waves out in a sort of fan motion above and below, all around the front of the plane. On a car the upper wave can dissipate normally, but where does the lower one go? This was basically over-engineered in this way: The car was designed with active suspension that would gradually lift up the rear end as the car gained speed and therefore alter the attack angle of the rear wing to drive the machine into the ground, basically trying to make sure it didnt take off. THe active suspension was troublesome and Green preferred to run with it locked I think, which caused internal strife!!!

But you are right, the front wheels were basically in freeair in a way. It is pretty impossible to have mechanicak grip at 700+mph, as the whole vehicle wants to take off, and is only being pushed down by weight, gravity and aero. I doubt there would be hardly any weight on the front end. THrust 2 was ony a few mph away from flipping when Sir Richard went 633 in the 80's, and Arfons lost control of his machine when he started pushing 550+, and they were both similar looking machines.

Ground effect is not something really looked in LSR cars I believe. I think until you can understand what the air is doing under a car at that speed, you would prefer to just let it be rather than try and use it to your advantage, bear in mind even in the 60's some of these cars were doing 600mph plus!! And the Arfons and Breedlove cars certainly didnt have ground effect.

Not sure about SSC, dont think there was ground effect involved, Ayers was a missile designer, so not an area he maybe would dabble in?

And if you listened to the guys on the show, its the situation of instability that makes these liners so hard to design, airflow does weird things at speed, and can often lead you down dark allies.

SSC beat the record with brute force and power, the thing weighed a ton, was over powered and basically was so designed as to never take off. It was broken at the end and falling to bits, hard to believe but it really was.

But it still did 750+ mph, and is in my eyes one of the most staggering automotive engineering achievements of my lifetime

[RickP:Clio51]

Ok, now I know you are a fellow LSR freak, I've forgiven you.

Lots more about the Flower in this fabulous short movie shot in 2011 on the Salt by a local kid, Josh Clason, which is what attracted the BBC to the project in the first place.



The Flower runs a rake to make sure there is always pressure on the nose... we looked at some suspension linked canards and designed a system but not had the funds to implement it yet. You can see in the video above how much the front moves around at Speed... and also the wheels patter... we reckon the front wheels touch every 3 meters alternatively, so putting vibrations through the car, and in particular, my eyes. Above about 180 mph, vision is basically limited to just colours.

Cheers
Rick

[Tim Falce]

Rick, I've just realised it's you that has the thread going on this LSR elsewhere, I'm now ashamed to say I haven't read it but now I'll have to go back and sit down and have a read.
As for the grumpy gits knocking you for making the effort to do this, **** em, keep up the great work and good luck to you and your team, I can't wait for the next episode.