Tyre Warming Question

[Caterhamf1]

Just wondering the most effective way to warm tyres before a race. I race a Honda Civic Hatch, no downforce or anything, front wheel drive, and pretty low powered (137kW) so can't spin up the tyres. We have only one warm up lap. Most weave across the track, but my opinion is that this will do jack all, because there is no downforce or anything to make the car stick to the ground. So instead I just accelerate and brake, so the heat from the brakes will radiate through to the tyres. What are your thoughts?

[MGDavid]

your car weighs about a tonne so quarter of a ton on each wheel, that's not 'jack all'. Get in a cold car outside your house, drive a couple of miles round town and then feel the tyres - they will be warm. Heat is generated partly through friction, more so throught the distortion of the tread and sidewalls due to the turning / weaving motion.

[Mike Bell]

Although we hear of F1 cars 'keeping heat in the tyres' by getting rims hot through overusing the brakes on warm up lap (Alonso especially), in a car like yours don't think any heat generated will ever get to the wheel rims in one lap. As David says, weight on the corners is what warms tyres via a combination of lateral and braking G forces. You need to load them as much as possible, without being a danger to your fellow competitors! However, getting brakes hot IMHO is just as important if not more so, so you can actually take speed off if necessary in traffic during early race laps. I left foot brake when safe to do so on warm up lap while still accelerating and weaving. (Practice somewhere on your own!) Also important especially if on slicks to make sure the outer tyres are hot for first corner, whichever way that goes. I can't post links from tablet but there is a YouTube clip of what happens when you don't- featuring me...

[Caterhamf1]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Although we hear of F1 cars 'keeping heat in the tyres' by getting rims hot through overusing the brakes on warm up lap (Alonso especially), in a car like yours don't think any heat generated will ever get to the wheel rims in one lap. As David says, weight on the corners is what warms tyres via a combination of lateral and braking G forces. You need to load them as much as possible, without being a danger to your fellow competitors! However, getting brakes hot IMHO is just as important if not more so, so you can actually take speed off if necessary in traffic during early race laps. I left foot brake when safe to do so on warm up lap while still accelerating and weaving. (Practice somewhere on your own!) Also important especially if on slicks to make sure the outer tyres are hot for first corner, whichever way that goes. I can't post links from tablet but there is a YouTube clip of what happens when you don't- featuring me...

Okay, thanks, thats good to know. I would be keen to see the youtube clip!

So I think I will go for weaving, and then bring the brakes up near the end of the lap for the start.

Thanks!

[GORDON STREETER]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2z7-wuuWfo
Here it is sent all the way from sunny Spain, It's right at the end of the video

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Here it is sent all the way from sunny Spain, It's right at the end of the video

Thanks Gordon. My moment of shame revisited! Fast forward to 9min 30sec.......

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Thanks Gordon. My moment of shame revisited! Fast forward to 9min 30sec.......

Looking at it Mike you had a bit of luck, that could have been expensive !

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Looking at it Mike you had a bit of luck, that could have been expensive !

Got to have some luck sometime! There may have been other factors involved as have never 'lost' a car on first corner before or since. However, thinking about it after the race, Mallory is such a short lap (and it had been wet / cold), lack of tyre temperature seemed logical conclusion.......

[Caterhamf1]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Thanks Gordon. My moment of shame revisited! Fast forward to 9min 30sec.......

Nice save, I think I may be putting a little extra effort into tyre warming now...

[deley]

whatever you do, try not to be (or cause) an "incident" before you even get to the race start .....

Dave

[Caterhamf1]

Originally Posted by deley

whatever you do, try not to be (or cause) an "incident" before you even get to the race start .....

Dave

Nah, I wont! We have pretty stirict rules - only weave across half the track, always have 5 car lengths etc. It would be pretty embarrising though

[Rudernst]

I have learnt - at the cost of some hairy first lap spins - to religiously warm up my tires. The trick in many cases is really forceful input into the steering wheel. Whatever You do, avoid forceful input into other competitiors or armco.

While the effect of warming up tires is more noticeable with slicks it does apply to all kinds of cars and tires.

advanced level:
I also learned to be weary of people near me on the grid who fail to warm up their tires because they are prone to have big moments on lap 1.
I once got caught up in somebody elses spin, he recovered, while I lost a lot of time on the grass.

I now place mental wagers with myself on driverx likely to spin on the first lap watching their behaviour during the warm up lap, I have developed quite an instinct and usually win my bet with my self.

I notice that historic racers that mainly raced on profiled tires are a bit leninent about warming them up whereas drivers used to single seaters on slicks warm tires up in everything.

Rudolf

[Caterhamf1]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

I have learnt - at the cost of some hairy first lap spins - to religiously warm up my tires. The trick in many cases is really forceful input into the steering wheel. Whatever You do, avoid forceful input into other competitiors or armco.

While the effect of warming up tires is more noticeable with slicks it does apply to all kinds of cars and tires.

advanced level:
I also learned to be weary of people near me on the grid who fail to warm up their tires because they are prone to have big moments on lap 1.
I once got caught up in somebody elses spin, he recovered, while I lost a lot of time on the grass.

I now place mental wagers with myself on driverx likely to spin on the first lap watching their behaviour during the warm up lap, I have developed quite an instinct and usually win my bet with my self.

I notice that historic racers that mainly raced on profiled tires are a bit leninent about warming them up whereas drivers used to single seaters on slicks warm tires up in everything.

Rudolf

Thanks, thats great feedback. So really sharp, aggressive wheel work to warm the tyres, but obviously watch out for others

[McMuttley]

dont forget to warm your brakes up too - they also come in handy in the first lap shuffle - nothin worse than a lunge becoming a 'fly past' into the kitty crap....

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by McMuttley

dont forget to warm your brakes up too - they also come in handy in the first lap shuffle - nothin worse than a lunge becoming a 'fly past' into the kitty crap....

Errrr- Post #3........

[McMuttley]

i dont scroll

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by McMuttley

i dont scroll

Whatever. You're not the only one.

[McMuttley]

when is this forum going to go to an iApp so that all us busy young un's can keep up with the retired old timers with nothing better to do (refers to Dikko et al) (ducks)

anyway, i'm only responding so that i can get to the magic squintyzillion posts necessary before i am allowed to paste my avatar pic !

ps, who invents all these smily people ? and why?


Just in case i'm not allowed back

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by McMuttley

Just in case i'm not allowed back

signed- Retired Old Timer

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by McMuttley

i dont scroll

The above and the fact that the forum has been on Tapatalk for ages qualifies you for honorary membership of the Old Duffers Club, no matter what your age! Welcome!

You have to be a subscriber to Tenths to get TTalk to work.

When Howard Strawford used to clerk regularly at Combe, he specifically banned tyre warming "weaving on the warm up lap" as he called it. He told us that if there was weaving, he would just hold the cars longer on the grid to make sure your tyres cooled down again! Ah, the days before 'elf 'n' safety, we were too naive to complain!

[GT-Driver]

How to warmp up a civic tyres. Easy mate. Plain physics; Friction brings Heat.

You only limitation is one lap to warm up. You already have nice replies above, im here just to add a little.

slaloms in the straight (when safe and becarfeull as others might be "slaloming" too and might slam into each other)

also on the corners try to drift/skid and take the lines that will make more G forces than the normal line (but the line has to be on the clean side on the road) you dont want your tyres to pick up dust and crap from the off the racing lines.

Also depending on the track and the car and your braking system installed you might do a whole lap or part of it with your left foot very gently on the brakes.

[McMuttley]

Originally Posted by midgetman

You have to be a subscriber to Tenths to get TTalk to work.

that would explain why i assumed i had just waster 69p on TTalk

I dont warm tyres, my weaving is just practicing the beginning of a spin