A1 GP Race Director Fired??

[Kebab]

I read on pitpass.com that the race director for A1 GP may have been fired due to what happened to Jos & team Netherlands.

Anyone know for sure?

[steve nielsen]

Yes indeed, it's true, the guy was fired by Maktoum Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum.

[marcus]

I have no idea what this is about , anyone care to give any more info ??

Who was the bloke and what did he do wrong for a start ??

[steve nielsen]

he gave Jos Verstappen a drive through for overtaking behind the safetycar, but the car Jos overtook(Thomas Enge) had just made a pitstop and was still making his way out of the pitlane exit(slowly, because the sharp turn at the end of the exit was very slippery)

[Phoenix1]

If he was the guy in charge of all those safety cars and VERY SLOW clearing of cars then he deserved it. It always annoyed me how long it took. Never seen anything so slow!

[strider]

The Race Director makes the call to send out the Safety Car, but he doesn't drive the Recovery truck as well!

Unless I'm mistaken, the guy in question is Tim Schenken whose other duties include being the Director - Racing Operations with CAMS and the Chairman of the Organising Committee and Clerk of the Course for the Australian Grand Prix. He is also the Clerk of the Course for the Surfers Paradise round of ChampCar, as well as the Race Director for the Australian V8 Super Car Championship, so he's quite experienced...

[Kebab]

Seems extreme to fire someone like that for 1 bad decision (assuming it was and its the first!) ...

[Suze]

I didn't see it, but sounds like it could be a little harsh - depends on the speed of Jos / Enge though.

Foxy's is a good point (first bit!), and he sounds rather experienced....

[Whitestar]

Having read pitpass I see Netherlands team principal Jan Lammers

if it's concluded that the officials made a wrong decision we have to see what our options are .Maybe officals can also receive some penalty or fine if they make a wrong decision.

I personally don't think so ,not for volunteers.

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by Whitestar

if it's concluded that the officials made a wrong decision we have to see what our options are .Maybe officals can also receive some penalty or fine if they make a wrong decision.

All drivers have the right of appeal against any decision by the Clerk of the Course or Race Director. However, if Jan Lammers was referring to other race officials (i.e the volunteer marshals) then I think he's batting on a very sticky wicket and may even lose the respect he's gained from them over the years.

[kootje]

Hello, here some news on this from Holland:

Jos Verstappen was very mad yesterday and said the reason he got the penalty - overtaking with yellow flag - was ridiculous. He never saw any yellow flag so he was allowed to overtake. Jos Verstappen was right. Because of this mistake the A1 Race director that blew Verstappen's chance to end third in the championship has been fired. Sheikh Maktoum Hasher Maktoum Al Maktoum has personally apoligized to Verstappen.

Jos Verstappen: “It was said that I had overtaken under yellow, during the first lap of the safety car situation. As I passed the pitlane exit, the Czech Republic came out after their stop. I was next to them and went into turn 2 in front of the Czech Republic. I did not see any yellow flags in turn 2 and was very surprised that the officials decided to give a through. When entering the pitlane I might have been over the speed limit a bit. If you receive another penalty straight away, it’s no use continuing the race. Next to that I suffered from ‘ free play’ in the steering after the contact with Brazil”.

Grtz Kootje, i believe that New Zealand also has a piont about the yellow flags when the are passed by Mexico at the time that Enge hits the tires...

[JABWOA]

Well, from what I've heard (if indeed Mr. Schecken was the current race director) he was due to be replaced anyway due to committments at the Aust F1 Grand Prix later this month, and I was under the impression he had already left.

[Asp]

It is a very harsh decision. I didn't see the original incident, so can't comment if the original penalty was deserved or not. However, there are appeal mechanisms to right any wrong suffered, and although he might be able to give him his drive through back things can be sorted.
Speeding in the pitlane though is a clear offence, and no-one put Jos can be blamed for that. And, Jos took the decision to retire. It's always wrong to say "it's no use in continuing the race". No-one knows what's going to happen further on in the race, loads of cars could have retired and the Netherlands could have ended up winning! If he had continued, that it would have been easier to right problems from the first, seamingly incorrect, penalty - I'm not sure about A1GP regulations, but it wouldn't be implausible to see time lost in that drive through credited to his race time, and then awarding extra points for where that would have resulted in his finish.

People make mistakes. But to fire someone for one little mistake, when the consequences were aggravated by the driver, seems a bit scapegoatish to me...

[Kebab]

Maybe the bloke is a total twit and so they were just looking for an excuse to get rid of him ...

[Suze]

or maybe he's got tons of experience and made a one off bad decision.

[strider]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

Well, from what I've heard (if indeed Mr. Schecken was the current race director) he was due to be replaced anyway due to committments at the Aust F1 Grand Prix later this month, and I was under the impression he had already left.

This sounds the more likely explanation to me.

The Australian GP and the last A1GP race in China are on the same date. Or maybe the Sheikh didn't like the prospect of being dumped in favour of F1 and made the first move, at the same time consoling Jos (the Boss)!

[JimW]

Or, just maybe, Jos knew that the safety car was out and so knew that yellows were displayed all round the circuit and ignored the one displayed at the pit exit area and chanced his arm by overtaking someone whom it was in his interest to overtake.

Having been found out for this blatant and dangerous flouting of the regulations he made a complete horlix of a straightforward penalty.

He then ejected the dummy from the pram and gave up racing and went looking for a scapegoat.

Not grown up and not clever.

See; it all depends on how you tell it.

Regards

Jim

[steve nielsen]

Enge had not exited the pilane yet, so Jos had every right to overtake him.

[cornercaptain]

Well this seems like the most intelligent discussion I have seen on the topic, so I will risk a post here.

I was working Turn 2 as an SCCA flagger this weekend at Laguna Seca. I am a "Turn Marshall" which is sometimes known as a "Corner Captain" and was in charge of the turn personnel. I had 4 other corner workers with me.

We worked two flag stations at Turn 2. The lead station is driver's left and is an elevated box, painted blue. The exit station is driver's right, after the apex of 2 at the bottom of the hill, behind the concrete wall and catch fence. I was in the lead station with a second flagger as well as the Communicator. I assigned two other flaggers to the exit station.

The pit exit lane at Laguna begins just after the Start/Finish line under the bridge. However it does not re-join the race track until the exit of Turn 2, at the bottom of the hill as the course straightens out towards Turn 3. At this point there is a white line painted across the pit exit lane and the race track. This was the designated Blend Line.

On Saturday we were asked by A1GP to provide a Blend Line Judge for Sunday's races. During a Safety Car situation, if a car came out of the pits and there were also cars on the race course proper, whoever got to the Blend Line first was to be scored as such. I assigned a very experienced flagger from Great Britain to be the blue flagger and Blend Line Judge. During a Safety Car he would obviously not need to continue blue flagging and was therefore free to concentrate on the Blend Line. The second person was the yellow flagger and also held the SC board.

With 41 laps to go in the race, South Africa crashed into the tires at Turn 6. The Safety Car was called onto the course. You can see how the Blend Line works by watching as France comes around Turn 11 and heads up the front straight at the same time that Mexico is leaving the pits. (Please also note that the Starter and the Re-Entry starter are waving yellows.) The announcers were trying to decide who would be scored first (and apparently knew nothing about the Blend Line). Watch as the cars go through Turn 2, with Mexico in the pit exit lane and France on the race course. Both cars are free to go as fast as possible to catch the Safety Car. France reached the Blend Line well ahead of Mexico. There was no question in this case, but in this example you can clearly see where the blend line is and how this was all supposed to work. (Please also note that both stations at Turn 2 are waving yellows.)

What we at the turn then saw was the Czech car coming down the pit exit lane. Jos, having pitted the lap prior, was on the race course proper. As they reached the Blend Line, Czech was clearly ahead by a half-car length. This was not a matter of inches; Jos' nose was about up to the cockpit of Tomas Enge's car. However, Jos did not slow and allow the Czech car ahead. We immediately called this in. This was witnessed very clearly by four of the five workers, including myself and the assigned Blend Line Judge. We were also asked to provide a written report which we turned in at the end of the event.

After the race resumed, Jos received a black flag and a drive-through penalty. Later he claimed that he did not see a yellow flag at Turn 2 and was therefore somehow entitled to pass.

By reviewing the broadcast back and forth, you will see that at this time:
- The Safety Car had been out on the course for a considerable time (and Jos had to know that it was out)
- The yellow flags and SC boards are very clearly being displayed by: the Starter, the Re-Entry Starter in the pit lane to the left, my flagger and me at the lead station of Turn 2, and you can even make out the waving yellow by my flagger at our exit station.

I would make an educated guess (based on ten years of experience) that Jos would have been somewhere between Turn 9 and Turn 11 when we see the Safety Car stopped on the course waiting for the leader. For him to say that he didn't see a yellow flag at Turn 2 and was therefore entitled to pass is just ridiculous. He had to have seen several yellows and SC boards well prior to that, and if you aren't looking at what the Starter is displaying then you REALLY need to be talked to about paying attention. You can see very clearly that France got the yellow and the SC board from the Starter and Jos was several seconds behind at that point!

Although the broadcast does not show the blend line at the moment when Tomas and Jos arrive, if you need assurance that this is the moment in the race in question, continue to watch the broadcast for another minute or so. The Safety Car has picked up Lebanon as the leader (Rahal had yet to pit) then France and Mexico. Watch as the cars round Turn 5 - you will see New Zealand, then Netherlands, then Czech Republic.

I am annoyed if not insulted that the Sheik apologized to Jos over the incident and apparently used this as an excuse to fire his Race Director. I assume, as some of you do, that there was more than that to his dismissal. However it is shameful to use the corner workers as the scapegoats. It is clear that we were all doing our job properly.

[JimW]

And welcome to TenTenths, Corner Captain.

Regards

Jim

[Woolley]

Welcome to the forum, and thank you for that enlightening post. It's frustrating to see a driver who has been either very fast or a complete plonker in equal measure, and has made many mistakes himself (exactly how should you rejoin the track safely, Jos? Straight across the oncoming traffic, or lets play Magic Roundabout while spreading mud everywhere.) exercising the right to reply about something he clearly knows - or cares - nothing about, and using foul language while doing so. I've never been much of a fan, but I've found some of his antics in this series completely unnaceptable and have lost any vestiges of respect for him.

I was mystified by his claim not to have seen the flag - he didn't seem to know which lap it referred to, suggesting it was the first lap - when yellows were clearly displayed several posts earlier for the safety car. A very poor show, but sadly the sort of thing we have to put up with far too often as these highly paid superstars assume that mere volunteers don't know what they're doing.

[Suze]

Welcome...and thanks for the post. Made interesting reading.

[Rime]

@ Cornercaptain

Nice story, good to read the opinion of a true insider. But the regulations of A1GP are pretty clear on this:

213:
It is the responsibility of each competitor (and its team) to release its car back onto the track after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so.

260:
While the Safety Car is in operation, competing cars may stop at their Pit, but may only rejoin the track when the green light at the pit exit is on. The green light will be on at all times except when the Safety Car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit. A CAR REJOINING THE TRACK MUST PROCEED AT REDUCED SPEED UNTIL IT REACHES THE END OF THE LINE OF CARS BEHIND THE SAFETY CAR.

225:
During both races, drivers leaving the pit lane may only do so when the pit exit light is green at their own risk. A MARSHALL WITH A BLUE FLAG, OR A FLASHING BLUE LIGHT, WILL ALSO WARN THE DRIVER IF CARS ARE APPROACHING ON THE TRACK.

c/p from Forum Verstappen.nl

[strider]

Whatever, according to this report Tim Schenken has not been sacked after all!

[JimW]

Originally Posted by foxy mole

Whatever, according to this report Tim Schenken has not been sacked after all!

Now that makes much more sense.

Jim