Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 Sep 2018, 10:40 (Ref:3852573)   #76
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,270
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Oh I have seen them numerous times, and they are fantastic bits of kit. I just happen to be old fashioned enough to think that an Escort should have a Crossflow, Pinto or BDA engine in it, and an H pattern gearbox.
Our Escort has an XE in it and a sequential box - our old car had a Zetec - when we built the new car it was either going to be Duratec or XE - XE gave more grunt per £ at the time (the Duratec was still very new at that point and conversion kits were thin on the ground). The sequential box is partly for durability - it lasts longer between rebuilds than the H patterns we've had. We'd love a BDA and ZF box but can't afford it - XE and Sadev is the best we can do! (and we get blown into the weeds by plenty of other cars besides Escorts).

With regards to rallying 'moving on' the problem is bigger than just "frankenstein" Escorts.
BertMk2 is online now  
Quote
Old 25 Sep 2018, 10:53 (Ref:3852576)   #77
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post

With regards to rallying 'moving on' the problem is bigger than just "frankenstein" Escorts.
Agreed, but if organisers were encouraged to have classes based on age periods (pre 1970; 1971-1980, 1981-1990 etc) with OEM engines, induction and gearboxes only then it would be a start.
andy97 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2018, 17:19 (Ref:3852814)   #78
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
I've never quite got the whole escort thing, they're not escorts most of them. Much like putting a duratec in a mk1 Cortina . . Leave the poor car alone and buy a focus st!

If Ford had a brain, they'd re release a modern rwd car. There would be a queue round the block!
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2018, 17:40 (Ref:3852821)   #79
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
I've never quite got the whole escort thing, they're not escorts most of them. Much like putting a duratec in a mk1 Cortina . . Leave the poor car alone and buy a focus st!

If Ford had a brain, they'd re release a modern rwd car. There would be a queue round the block!
Agreed Zef. There are quite a few modern Mustangs about now.

The appeal of Escorts in rallying now is that there is still a very good support and spares network, inc kits for upgrades, and crucially, they are very light.

The rules in rallying encourage it. Why would anyone rally a 250 bhp 1100 kg car when theycan rally a 250 bhp 850 kg one.
andy97 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2018, 18:50 (Ref:3852838)   #80
rbs
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
northampton
Posts: 2,095
rbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrbs should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Why not limit engine revs & BHP to that when cars were built in period. This would stop the mega buck engines being built and sold to very rich!!!
rbs is offline  
__________________
If you die in debt you made a profit.
Quote
Old 26 Sep 2018, 20:02 (Ref:3852847)   #81
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbs View Post
Why not limit engine revs & BHP to that when cars were built in period. This would stop the mega buck engines being built and sold to very rich!!!
Too many vested interests. Sound familiar?

I certainly think that rallying should adopt class structures based on OEM engines and within defined eras (70s, 80’s etc) plus pukka historics and moderns etc, but you try suggesting that on the “British Rally Forum”!
andy97 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 08:49 (Ref:3852901)   #82
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
My opinion of historic motorsport is now that Once a certain fraternity get involved anything goes.
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 09:11 (Ref:3852903)   #83
v jones
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 33
v jones should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We built a mk 4 Escort for the modified ford championship,some years ago,that died and morfed into CTRCC Boss,was surprised to see another new Ford series at Cadwell Park recently,only had 6 cars. I was told that the last round at Rockingham was cancelled due to lack of entries.It seems that on that basis dedicated Escort effort would not work. I assume most Escorts are spread round other championships.It seems that a number of new championships are proposed every year,at Cadwell Park recently a new Westfield series was supposed to make its debut!
v jones is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 09:15 (Ref:3852904)   #84
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by v jones View Post
We built a mk 4 Escort for the modified ford championship,some years ago,that died and morfed into CTRCC Boss,was surprised to see another new Ford series at Cadwell Park recently,only had 6 cars. I was told that the last round at Rockingham was cancelled due to lack of entries.It seems that on that basis dedicated Escort effort would not work. I assume most Escorts are spread round other championships.It seems that a number of new championships are proposed every year,at Cadwell Park recently a new Westfield series was supposed to make its debut!
Most Escorts are built for rallying and those that are built for racing would be better off in existing series, like BOSS etc

I have wondered, though, why the HSCC dont seen to allow the Escort in to its 70s Roadsports series.

Westfields would be better off racing in CSCC Magnificent 7s, in their own class if neccessary.
andy97 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 10:39 (Ref:3852921)   #85
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,270
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
The appeal of Escorts in rallying now is that there is still a very good support and spares network, inc kits for upgrades, and crucially, they are very light.

The rules in rallying encourage it. Why would anyone rally a 250 bhp 1100 kg car when theycan rally a 250 bhp 850 kg one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
I've never quite got the whole escort thing, they're not escorts most of them. Much like putting a duratec in a mk1 Cortina . . Leave the poor car alone and buy a focus st!

If Ford had a brain, they'd re release a modern rwd car. There would be a queue round the block!
The reason we went Escort is that my driver had one as his first car. Years later he bought another as a 'nostalgic toy' - eventually it morphed into a rally car. That got stolen and we replaced it with another Escort - we still had spares and the alternatives weren't as 'fun'. RWD, lots of parts / knowledge available - it's 'easy' to build an Escort - you're not trying to develop the tech yourself.

The 'K37' changes to the MSA regs also made things worse - they made it a lot harder to build heavily modified cars. Previously you could have taken a Fiesta 7 shell and converted to RWD (gives you the fun factor in a modern shell - Escort running gear can be used so parts availability is good). Innovation used to be possible - I remember competing against a 205 with a spaceframed rear end and motorbike engine in the back, Andy Burtons 306 anyone? Much harder to do that now so Escort it is.

There are some more modern cars that I've been impressed with - oddly both Citroens - C2's always look like quite good fun if they've got a snorty motor and there's a very tidy DS3 1.6T that's been out and about and that shifts along nicely (ends up in the same class as the Millington Escorts usually).

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
but you try suggesting that on the “British Rally Forum”!
You can't really post anything on there if you're not part of the clique, everything just gets derailed by the usual suspects spouting their usual rubbish whether it's relevant or not. I largely gave up with that some time ago.
BertMk2 is online now  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 11:42 (Ref:3852942)   #86
justracing
Veteran
 
justracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Posts: 2,444
justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
[QUOTE=BertMk2;3852921]The reason we went Escort is that my driver had one as his first car. Years later he bought another as a 'nostalgic toy' - eventually it morphed into a rally car. That got stolen and we replaced it with another Escort - we still had spares and the alternatives weren't as 'fun'. RWD, lots of parts / knowledge available - it's 'easy' to build an Escort - you're not trying to develop the tech yourself[QUOTE]

It's not a criminal offence!

[QUOTE] You can't really post anything on there if you're not part of the clique, everything just gets derailed by the usual suspects spouting their usual rubbish whether it's relevant or not. I largely gave up with that some time ago.[QUOTE]

How right you are!
justracing is online now  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 12:04 (Ref:3852947)   #87
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
I have wondered, though, why the HSCC dont seen to allow the Escort in to its 70s Roadsports series.
There was a Mk2 RS2000 running in ‘70s years ago, but the powers that run roadsports decided it was a saloon, not ‘sports’ car........ The Capri was deemed OK, however. They let the new owner of the Gp1 RS I built to race on a couple of occasions last year, but in an invitation class.
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 12:19 (Ref:3852951)   #88
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,981
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
There was a Mk2 RS2000 running in ‘70s years ago, but the powers that run roadsports decided it was a saloon, not ‘sports’ car........ The Capri was deemed OK, however. They let the new owner of the Gp1 RS I built to race on a couple of occasions last year, but in an invitation class.
Hmmm, "2 Door GT Coupe's" are allowed.

Not entirely sure that there is a great deal of difference between a 2 door Escort and a Cavalier, Firenza, Corolla Liftback, Opel Commodore or Mustang GT etc.
They allow the RX7 to race and that won in the British SALOON Car Championship. Lol!

An Escort Mexico, Harrier, RS2000 etc are definitely the "70s Roadsports" cars of the range. maybe HSCC should recognise that the 70s was a time of change and allow "Hot Hatches" in, too. Hey Ho
andy97 is offline  
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 16:02 (Ref:3852985)   #89
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
I argued that the HRSR (gp5 saloons) should allow mk1 Escort 1300 GT's in . . . . always seemed odd to have post 66 regs with pre 66 cars
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 16:25 (Ref:3852988)   #90
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Hmmm, "2 Door GT Coupe's" are allowed.

Not entirely sure that there is a great deal of difference between a 2 door Escort and a Cavalier, Firenza, Corolla Liftback, Opel Commodore or Mustang GT etc.
They allow the RX7 to race and that won in the British SALOON Car Championship. Lol!

An Escort Mexico, Harrier, RS2000 etc are definitely the "70s Roadsports" cars of the range. maybe HSCC should recognise that the 70s was a time of change and allow "Hot Hatches" in, too. Hey Ho
I’m with you, but the roadsports hierarchy make their own rules, seemingly. Prob getting on for 10yrs ago they decided that Morgan +8, lotus / caterham 7 etc couldn’t run aero screens, hoping maybe that a full screen would slow my mate down in his winning Mog. He was less than impressed, but turned up at the next race with full screen, won the race, and then stopped racing with them.........
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 16:38 (Ref:3852991)   #91
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,233
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
[Off Topic]

Reading this thread confirms my utmost respect for Ford. What other company has produced vehicles that can take such a variety of modification? From the Ruddspeed Zephyr, via the 1500GT Anglia (my personal fave) to the Escort in all its guises. And for professional motorsport who can beat the Capri? Only BMW who were/are vastly more expensive.[/Off Topic]

And back to the thread.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Sep 2018, 18:42 (Ref:3853022)   #92
v jones
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 33
v jones should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97 View Post
Most Escorts are built for rallying and those that are built for racing would be better off in existing series, like BOSS etc

I have wondered, though, why the HSCC dont seen to allow the Escort in to its 70s Roadsports series.

Westfields would be better off racing in CSCC Magnificent 7s, in their own class if neccessary.
The Westfields mentioned were to be a new effort not re-cycled old cars,i have looked at the cscc series,they are nice people but I do feel that their series remind me of a track day with loads of classes and pit stops. We need less championships/series not more. Mark 3/4 escorts as in fwd don't have any history as rally cars.
v jones is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Oct 2018, 17:34 (Ref:3854134)   #93
Mike Bell
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
The HSCC have written to the competitors who took part in the Brands Escort races asking if they would be interested in two or three repeats at their meetings next season.

Easy to say ‘Yes’, but will obviously depend on where and when.......
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
30th Anniversary of the original Escort XTrac bigdick1977 Rallying & Rallycross 17 23 Nov 2013 11:15
HSCC at Brands Hatch Sunday 23rd September 2012 jamieshilling Marshals Forum 20 25 Sep 2012 21:33
CTCRC/BARC Aug 22/23rd - Brands Indy Al Weyman National & Club Racing 63 27 Aug 2009 21:35
Thruxton 40th anniversary 23rd 24th march cornish git Marshals Forum 14 30 Mar 2008 20:44


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.