BTCC Rounds 19-21 Croft - Page 6

AnnoyedMoose · 11 Oct 2020, 10:19 (Ref:4009728)

Depends if one those variables gives a car a big advantage in one area though. I know from racing against RWD cars in a FWD car how fast they are off the line with no "hobbling". The whole grid would have to go RWD to compete as making up the number of places you lose off the start in the race is next to impossible.

Evantra · 11 Oct 2020, 10:36 (Ref:4009732)

Jac Constable withdrawn due to illness

Robshillito1990 · 11 Oct 2020, 10:39 (Ref:4009734)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

https://t.co/3HAJCIYzMN

RWD starts changed again...

Feels a bit like BMW are starting to take control of how this series is run. Personally think the lower start boost at thruxton and silverstone evened things out massively on the starts and made for more interesting first few laps. Croft is a rwd track, they will walk away with it today. Starting to ruin the whole excitement and spectacle of the close championship and numerous title contenders. Dont think Cammish stands a chance of taking anything this year now tbh. RWD has such an advantage everywhere now it seems and wondering how long it will be before other teams are put off even running fwd cars due to this.

mprmke · 11 Oct 2020, 10:44 (Ref:4009735)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

https://t.co/3HAJCIYzMN

RWD starts changed again...

A worthless token gesture which will make no real difference.

Ridiculous how much they’re hobbling RWD cars. Taking away one of theirs inherent advantages, but don’t do anything about the many disadvantages they do/could potentially face.

All the cars are so evenly matched in every other aspects, letting RWD/FWD natural advantages/disadvantages was one of the only things that added a bit of spice.

FFSM · 11 Oct 2020, 10:53 (Ref:4009736)

Jeez. Didn't know Tingram had failed the ride height until just now. Gutted for him. Title hopes got to be over now, especially after two DNF's at Silverstone - where a few laps into R2 it was looking like he might be a serious contender this year.

The guy has such terrible luck... makes you wonder if it's something with his driving style, or the team he's with - or if he's just broke a few mirrors! With more favourable fortune, I think he'd probably have at least one Championship to his name by now.

porsche962fan · 11 Oct 2020, 10:56 (Ref:4009737)

Constable not on the grid

crmalcolm · 11 Oct 2020, 10:57 (Ref:4009738)

Quote:

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Constable not on the grid

Look 4 posts back

Jon411 · 11 Oct 2020, 10:58 (Ref:4009739)

There are 4 Rear Wheel drive teams on the grid, this perception that it's BMW moaning to get their own way is a bit comical.

It's a bit ridiculous when a perceived advantage is restricted so much it actually becomes a disadvantage - the Fords were making self-confessed poor starts but were still able to cruise around the BMWs during the second part of the starting phase.

If the organisers are so keen to even the cars out maybe it's time that the RWD weight penalty is removed for example. I don't see anything being done to look at equalling out how long it takes the tyres to warm up on FWD vs RWD (an impossible task)

I know I am being a bit ridiculous suggesting that but it's getting to the point where you have to question when will this stop - if you equalise the cars too much then you start affecting the racing on track as the performance differences over various tracks are lost and it starts affecting the ability for cars to race and overtake.

porsche962fan · 11 Oct 2020, 11:10 (Ref:4009742)

for once Butcher did Turks a favor ...

Robshillito1990 · 11 Oct 2020, 11:13 (Ref:4009743)

Fact cars with full ballast like turkington and Sutton are challenging top 3 is an absolute **** take. Should ban rwd. Would make a much more level playing field and bmw now make a fwd car.

Akrapovic · 11 Oct 2020, 11:21 (Ref:4009744)

I don't care for the FWD vs RWD argument, but I do think the ballast isn't effective enough now days. Either have it to make a difference, ore remove it completely.

Jon411 · 11 Oct 2020, 11:23 (Ref:4009745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Fact cars with full ballast like turkington and Sutton are challenging top 3 is an absolute **** take. Should ban rwd. Would make a much more level playing field and bmw now make a fwd car.

If Ingram's car had passed the ride height test yesterday he would more than likely be leading with 4th placed ballast - similarly Cammish and Ingram qualified well at Silverstone.

Robshillito1990 · 11 Oct 2020, 11:24 (Ref:4009746)

Sutton is overtaking cars like they're stood still. Its an absolute joke. Dont find btcc fun to watch at all anymore because everyone either moves over for him or doesnt stand a chance and there's 0 balance of performance anymore

billy bleach · 11 Oct 2020, 11:34 (Ref:4009747)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Sutton is overtaking cars like they're stood still. Its an absolute joke. Dont find btcc fun to watch at all anymore because everyone either moves over for him or doesnt stand a chance and there's 0 balance of performance anymore

So what is Moffat’s excuse? Could it be that Sutton is the class of the field?

Evantra · 11 Oct 2020, 11:39 (Ref:4009750)

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy bleach

So what is Moffat’s excuse? Could it be that Sutton is the class of the field?

Yeah it's a weird one. Moffat's a race winner, yet not been close this season. Sutton just seems to drive round everyone else, would've won that race had he not spun. Obviously he is one of thr very top drivers in the championship, amazing how he manages to find that pace.

So pleased for Thompson!

mprmke · 11 Oct 2020, 11:42 (Ref:4009751)

Turkington and Sutton and head and shoulders above everyone else. The fact that they both have bang average team mates shows that off very well. If they weren’t so heavily hampered they would be miles in front of everyone else by now. The fact that some very, very average drivers are still in the title race is the only joke here!

KA · 11 Oct 2020, 11:45 (Ref:4009752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Sutton is overtaking cars like they're stood still. Its an absolute joke. Dont find btcc fun to watch at all anymore because everyone either moves over for him or doesnt stand a chance and there's 0 balance of performance anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by billy bleach

So what is Moffat’s excuse? Could it be that Sutton is the class of the field?

That's the big fly in the ointment with this fwd/rwd argument- OK, Turkington finished 3rd and Sutton seemed to be passing cars almost at will in rwd cars carrying ballast, but where were their respective team-mates? 11th and 16th.

Craner Curves · 11 Oct 2020, 12:12 (Ref:4009756)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robshillito1990

Sutton is overtaking cars like they're stood still. Its an absolute joke. Dont find btcc fun to watch at all anymore because everyone either moves over for him or doesnt stand a chance and there's 0 balance of performance anymore

I agree, it's pathetic. Chilton was the only one with the balls to defend against him and make him work. Yes the car is fast and so is he, but drivers not defending is skewing the picture a bit.

porsche962fan · 11 Oct 2020, 12:16 (Ref:4009758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I agree, it's pathetic. Chilton was the only one with the balls to defend against him and make him work. Yes the car is fast and so is he, but drivers not defending is skewing the picture a bit.

and he did that with full ballast while Turkington couldn't really challange the Hondas in front of him .

didn't all BMW engines get a boost reduction last year ? this would mean Infiniti with an unrestricted TOCA engine may have an advanatge

porsche962fan · 11 Oct 2020, 12:26 (Ref:4009762)

Sutton promoted to fourth , Butcher recieved time penalty

Alfisti · 11 Oct 2020, 13:12 (Ref:4009773)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I agree, it's pathetic. Chilton was the only one with the balls to defend against him and make him work. Yes the car is fast and so is he, but drivers not defending is skewing the picture a bit.

Yeah, one of the reasons I have so much respect for Sonic. Proper race craft, always defends and attacks cleanly. Knows his enemy, watches what they're up to and acts accordingly.

Impressed with how well Cookie and Jake ran too. If the Butcher penalty was for tapping Sutton I find it ridiculous - clearly Sutton drove into the space Rory was committed too. Sutton is losing my little respect again - how many times did he hit Colin's car? Not on. Drive cleanly young man, you have the skill and raw pace to win without doing a "Dirty Leeds".

AnnoyedMoose · 11 Oct 2020, 13:15 (Ref:4009776)

How much of people not putting up a fight against him is the reputation he has for being aggressive? They probably think losing a place to him is better than a big repair bill.

Evantra · 11 Oct 2020, 13:26 (Ref:4009781)

Hamilton and Boardley miss R2...

BillWiskins · 11 Oct 2020, 13:26 (Ref:4009782)

Butcher's penalty seems harsh from what I remember of it. Don't think he or Sutton can really take a majority of the blame for it, and I'm sure other more egregious moves have gone unpunished, but the stewards have more data than I do, so.

Evantra · 11 Oct 2020, 13:31 (Ref:4009786)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evantra

Hamilton and Boardley miss R2...

And Goff in the pits. So HARD manage to get only 1 of their cars to start this race...

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