2014 Liqui Moly Bathurst 12 Hour: 7-9 February (Merged)

[inpitlane]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Martin Brundle said today to Rusty, he'd like to Bathurst, V8s or the 12 Hour. Given he did lemans in a Nissan powered car and who is looking to enter a car or two in 2014.....
Nissan GTR GT3 - Todd Kelly, Mark Skaife and Martin Brundle.....or maybe not.....

And I am told that Martin Brundle is a friend of Skaifes. So it's not a ridiculous idea.
I think after the Radio Le Mans coverage that next year you will see a lot more internationals coming to do the race.
They were certainly the catalyst for the Nissan interest.

[Reload]

Would be great to see a couple of GT3 Nissans participate.Even the word getting around stating that they are very interested pricks the ears of others thinking of making the trip.

[Oldtony]

As a point of interest who is responsible for driver grading/seeding for the 12hr.
Matt Kingsley has been upgraded to "professional" in the Porsche series. Based on demonstrated talent that is probably reasonable, although he certainly doesn't seem to get the in car time that some other competitors in the clas achieve.
When it comes to the 12hr Kingers would have to look like a very handy bloke to have in the car, but will that be graded as a "professional" or a "gentleman".
There are probably others about whom it would be interesting to know their classification, particularly some of the overseas drivers who get a lot of car time but are classified as "gentlemen".

[Sheep Stations]

Interesting question OT. Driver status is determined by a set of criteria in the rules/regs as per B12 hour and most other categories. Win a championship, earn a living out of racing etc.

So by those rules Kingsley is an amateur, runs a tyre and mechanical business, self funded ( but very keen to hear from potential sponsors!).

Carrera Cup seeding is determined by the Porsche Motorsport director at his sole discretion. So Kingsley is just too fast. He did win GT3CC in 2009 but its a series, not a CAMS national championship. I don't think Matt cares either way, he's loving having a crack at it.

[pplater]

Yep, Kingers wouldn't rate as a seeded driver. These were the rules along those lines for 2013:

A seeded driver is a professional or semi professional driver, generally recognised as a well-known driver, under the age of 60, and satisfying at least one of the following criteria:
• has held a Super Licence (for Formula One);
• has won the Le Mans 24 Hour outright;
• has been a Works Driver, paid by a car manufacturer;
• has finished in the top 10 in the general classification in F3000, CART/Champcar, IRL or GP2;
• has finished in the top 6 in the general classification of an F3 international series (British/EuroF3)
or major international single seater Championship (Example: Nissan World Series);
• has competed competitively in the World Karting Championship or single-seater series and is under 35 years of age;
• has finished in the top 10 in the general classification of a secondary international single-seater series (A1, GP, Renault V6, FR2000 international!);
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national single-seater series (F3, FR2000);
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of an entry level single-seater series (F-Ford, F-BMW, F-Zip, Autosport Academy);
• has finished in the top 6 in the general classification of the Porsche Supercup;
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national or international series organsied by a manufacturer (Australian Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge excluded);
• has competed in the FIA GT1 World Championship;
• has competed in the V8 Supercar Championship (including co-drivers) within the last 10 years;
• is a driver whose performances and achievements, despite not being covered by one of the definitions above, may be considered as professional or semi professional by the Organising Committee.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by pplater

Yep, Kingers wouldn't rate as a seeded driver. These were the rules along those lines for 2013:

A seeded driver is a professional or semi professional driver, generally recognised as a well-known driver, under the age of 60, and satisfying at least one of the following criteria:
• has held a Super Licence (for Formula One);
• has won the Le Mans 24 Hour outright;
• has been a Works Driver, paid by a car manufacturer;
• has finished in the top 10 in the general classification in F3000, CART/Champcar, IRL or GP2;
• has finished in the top 6 in the general classification of an F3 international series (British/EuroF3)
or major international single seater Championship (Example: Nissan World Series);
• has competed competitively in the World Karting Championship or single-seater series and is under 35 years of age;
• has finished in the top 10 in the general classification of a secondary international single-seater series (A1, GP, Renault V6, FR2000 international!);
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national single-seater series (F3, FR2000);
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of an entry level single-seater series (F-Ford, F-BMW, F-Zip, Autosport Academy);
• has finished in the top 6 in the general classification of the Porsche Supercup;
• has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national or international series organsied by a manufacturer (Australian Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge excluded);
• has competed in the FIA GT1 World Championship;
• has competed in the V8 Supercar Championship (including co-drivers) within the last 10 years;
• is a driver whose performances and achievements, despite not being covered by one of the definitions above, may be considered as professional or semi professional by the Organising Committee.

where does an full time Aust GT driver fit into that then. I couldn't see a category,although maybe missing it

[Oldtony]

Originally Posted by peckstar

where does an full time Aust GT driver fit into that then. I couldn't see a category,although maybe missing it

I doubt if such a person exists.
I suppose Bairdo, with the mix of Posche and GT would be the closest to being classified that way. And he certainly fits a number of the categories listed as "professional".
Thanks for the info Pplater.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by peckstar

where does an full time Aust GT driver fit into that then. I couldn't see a category,although maybe missing it

Well I suppose you could look at the last line in that criteria which could be applied

' is a driver whose performances and achievements, despite not being covered by one of the definitions above, may be considered as professional or semi professional by the Organising Committee'

Im sure that could be used to cover someone who maybe a full time AGT driver but doesnt fit the above criteria. Just a thought

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by rich07

Well I suppose you could look at the last line in that criteria which could be applied

' is a driver whose performances and achievements, despite not being covered by one of the definitions above, may be considered as professional or semi professional by the Organising Committee'

Im sure that could be used to cover someone who maybe a full time AGT driver but doesnt fit the above criteria. Just a thought

i was trying to relate it to say

"has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national or international series organsied by a manufacturer (Australian Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge excluded);"

So for instance where does Peter Hackett fit in?. I would have assumed he would meet the criteria being last years champ, but he that position doesnt come up on the list

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by peckstar

i was trying to relate it to say

"has finished in the top 3 in the general classification of a national or international series organsied by a manufacturer (Australian Porsche GT3 Cup Challenge excluded);"

So for instance where does Peter Hackett fit in?. I would have assumed he would meet the criteria being last years champ, but he that position doesnt come up on the list

Mr Hackett didnt win last year... much to Erebus' lament

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

So for instance where does Peter Hackett fit in?. I would have assumed he would meet the criteria being last years champ, but he that position doesnt come up on the list

Pecky - I thought you followed the GT championship?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Pecky - I thought you followed the GT championship?

Never said that anywhere.

Watched it at clipsal 2nd time i have seen it. not overly impressed.

but thats different to me wanting to go to the 12 hour race and watch different classes and an enduro race with genuine pit stops.

Now why arent the quinns considered seeded drivers based on the rules of seeding (hackett as well).

as i said its not caught in the rules, but would ahve thought it would be based on it being a national championship and one of our fastest national championship

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by pplater

A seeded driver is a professional or semi professional driver, generally recognised as a well-known driver, under the age of 60, and satisfying at least one of the following criteria:

• has competed in the V8 Supercar Championship (including co-drivers) within the last 10 years;

So David Thexton would be a seeded driver??

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

So David Thexton would be a seeded driver??

Techinically he will be able to race next year due to the ten year rule, but he couldnt race this year

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Never said that anywhere.

Forgive me - considering your intense posting on the subject lately I assumed you would know the 2012 champion?

Originally Posted by peckstar

Watched it at clipsal 2nd time i have seen it. not overly impressed.

What didnt impress you?

Originally Posted by peckstar

but thats different to me wanting to go to the 12 hour race and watch different classes and an enduro race with genuine pit stops.

Do you go to watch racing or just genuine put stops?

Originally Posted by peckstar

Now why arent the quinns considered seeded drivers based on the rules of seeding (hackett as well).

as i said its not caught in the rules, but would ahve thought it would be based on it being a national championship and one of our fastest national championship

I wouldnt count the Quinns as seeded drivers

[Oldtony]

Sorry Folks.
Just wanted some information and a little rational explanation.
Didn't expect to open a expedition.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

I wouldnt count the Quinns as seeded drivers

All i have done is ask a simple question , where does the winner off last years championship fit into the seeding structure. and 2nd in the championship etc

I dont really expect to cope in depth analysis

(I made an error with the driver because I had trusted Wikipedia, but it hadnt been updated)

[T-star]

Hackett is a former Aus F3 champion...so he should be seeded.

Previous years had the Aus GT Champ given an automatic seeding (hence slight controversy over Luff, Lowndes, Eddy team) but apparantly not now.

[one five five]

The Australian GT Championship is primarily an Amateur championship, with the emphasis generally not on the pro's (Erebus driver lineup at Adelaide a few weeks ago was a rare sight)

the Quinn's are not full-time racing drivers, why would they be seeded (though i remember Klark Quinn being very handy when he joined Carrera Cup in 2003)

Originally Posted by T-star

Hackett is a former Aus F3 champion...so he should be seeded.

Hackett's F3 win was way back in 2001 wasn't it? When half the grid was old F2 cars and that series was not attached to the Australian Drivers Championship or CAMS Gold Star...... It was the effective equivalent of winning the Formula Tasman series at IRACE these days

[T-star]

Originally Posted by T-star
Hackett is a former Aus F3 champion...so he should be seeded.

Hackett's F3 win was way back in 2001 wasn't it? When half the grid was old F2 cars and that series was not attached to the Australian Drivers Championship or CAMS Gold Star...... It was the effective equivalent of winning the Formula Tasman series at IRACE these days







Oh i'm not saying he's any good! But he did win it...and I think it was a national championship.

EDIT: on the F3 website the results archive only goes back to 2006. I do remember being at Wakefield when Caruso got crowned champ and could have sworn it was a National Championship as my mate won the 2nd division championship (whatever the older cars were called then) in 2003.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by T-star

Oh i'm not saying he's any good! But he did win it...and I think it was a national championship.

EDIT: on the F3 website the results archive only goes back to 2006. I do remember being at Wakefield when Caruso got crowned champ and could have sworn it was a National Championship as my mate won the 2nd division championship (whatever the older cars were called then) in 2003.

2003 was the first time F3 cars were eligible & competing for the Australian Drivers Championship and CAMS Gold Star

You are correct, Caruso won the 2003 title

Prior to 2003 though, i don't recall an F3 series of National Championship status, perhaps it had series status?

[EfiOz]

F3 was a championship from 2001 onwards, 1999 and 2000 was only granted series status then.

The missing from the website winners are Stephenson 1999/2000, Hackett 2001, Manderson 2002, Caruso 2003, Reinderl 2004, Caratti 2005

[Reload]

After seeing the Engstler BMW Z4 at this years event (and loving it), and with them now having an experience of the track and their competitors and knowing that they were off the pace in general, what is available to them in order to be competitive next year ?
Upgrades on car, spec etc ?

[D.R.T.]

It was mentioned that the car was only a 2010 spec vehicle this year - in particular the aero package that came on leaps and bounds in later editions so that would be an obvious improvement.

Some Munich support wouldnt go astray either

[rich07]

Engstler run a couple of gentlemen drivers dont they?

If BMW were serious like Audi were they'd support Schubert or MarcVDS coming down here with a full lineup of pro drivers and latest spec cars with BMW factory support. Thatd be awesome and really would challenge for the win.