Champcar-Brands RUINED!

[blackfalcon]

That would be Graham Hill that they castrated. Ouch

[Lee Janotta]

Ooo... *cringe* So where does that leave Damon?

[Snapper Baz]

Popped into Brands this afternoon and the fencing seems to be pretty much all round the circuit now. Open grandstands are being erected from the hospitallity suites right the way down to clearways until the flat gravel surface ends-about 100yards before the Foulstone centre. There seems to be no other stands anywhere else including the foot of Paddock Bend. Also, a NEW toilet block is being built (though doesn't look any bigger) where the old one was near the little kart circuit near the Kentagon and should be ready for the May meeting

[Snapper Baz]

Having been at Brands all day (Monday)I have to say the nearer it gets (Champcar)the more I'm looking forward to it! I know I have been sounding off about the fencing thing but if thats what the Americans insist on then thats the way it will have to be and we will have to take it as it comes. It has taken a long, long time for the series to get back to Brands so I guess we (the UK racing scene)should be thankfull and make the most of this visit and just enjoy the spectacle of the race and its razzmatazz. It seems that the fencing maybe here to stay-apparently there is a 5 year deal for the race at Brands (havn't read this yet)so lets keep it here if we can by coming through the gates on the day and putting up with the extra safety measures in place.

[Lee Janotta]

Don't blame us, there's an Englishman running the series!

[Elio]

Re fencing - somehow I don`t think it will have the stamina to stay up until May next year!! A stretch of it along the back of the pits on Cooper straight has already fallen down - presumably due to the gusty winds on Friday/Saturday.

I`m sure that the compromises it presents to both flag marshallers and press photographers will mean most of it will probably come down again (just like it would at any other non-permanent CART fixture). It`s not embedded in the ground or anything, just lashed to the armco. I`m sure it`s much quicker to tear down than it is to put up (and it seems to have only taken a matter of days to put it up!).

[Rob29]

Thanks,Elio,that sounds like good news for a change.The worst case scenario was the that the temp stands would be dismantled as usual,leaving the circuit useless for the purposes of spectating for the forseeable future.I often wonder why motorbike fans put up with the fences that are not necessary for their safetly.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Rob29
I often wonder why motorbike fans put up with the fences that are not necessary for their safetly.

Catch fencing is more necessary for safety in bike racing than in car racing!

[Woolley]

A stretch of it along the back of the pits on Cooper straight has already fallen down - presumably due to the gusty winds on Friday/Saturday

Well, that should offer great protection from a Champ Car at speed

[Chris Y]

Having walked the track on Saturday night, I looked at the fencing on the Cooper straight - it wasn't blown down by wind.

The 'u-bolts' to attach it to the wooden Armco posts were still lying on the ground unused. It had yet to be put up.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
Catch fencing is more necessary for safety in bike racing than in car racing!

Perhaps you can explain that one dave? My impression is that the only way to provide safety for bikers is lots of grass for them to slide on their bums. Thus I would like to Silverstone used only for bikes.Spectators could then be moved nearer the action at places reserved for cars.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Rob29
Perhaps you can explain that one dave? My impression is that the only way to provide safety for bikers is lots of grass for them to slide on their bums.

One of the problems with bikes is that they have projections which can dig into grass. A bike can be sliding apparently harmlessly across a grass run-off area, then something digs in & the bike is flipped up into the air. I've been at two meetings already this year where that has happened & the bike has ended up on top of the tyre wall; two marshals I know had a bike fly over their heads & hit the catch fencing behind them at a BSB meeting last year.

Thus I would like to Silverstone used only for bikes.

Bikes have just as much right to race at any circuit as cars. Bike racing may be considered by some to be the poor relation, but the crowd figures suggest otherwise.

Spectators could then be moved nearer the action at places reserved for cars.

Like it or not, spectators are going to have get used to the idea of living with the changes made for their safety. In the litigious society in which we live, circuit owners, race organisers, etc., cannot afford to be complacent; blame the lawyers & the insurance companies. Catch fencing, big run-offs, spectator areas being moved back from the track are all part of the price you pay for the right to continue spectating. The alternative is......????

[racerkeke]

Please note that at other CART tracks, fence holes are designated either photo or flag. E-holes (designed for driver exit from trackside over the wall) are often used for photo if response workers are not using them. Unfortunately the best views are from the flag holes so in hot areas we often have photogs piled up behind us snapping. I usually don't mind (people have to make a living) unless there are so many that they impede our work or clog up our exit route. In that case we often mark "no go" areas with chalk, flagging tape or rope to allow us some room.

You guys will get used to it, I promise. The flaggers will learn to see thru the fence, the photogs will learn to shoot thru it, etc. We did. Of course, we had our noses rubbed in what happens if you have no fence, or the wrong fence.

keke

[jpc]

With regards to the section that fell down on Cooper straight - I was told this "fell down" after a BMW collided with the armco during testing and the firm that erected it couldn't come to fix it before the meeting. Doubtless the new fence can cope with Champcars, just not errant Beemers!!!

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
[B]One of the problems with bikes is that they have projections which can dig into grass. A bike can be sliding apparently harmlessly across a grass run-off area, then something digs in & the bike is flipped up into the air. I've been at two meetings already this year where that has happened & the bike has ended up on top of the tyre wall; two marshals I know had a bike fly over their heads & hit the catch fencing behind them at a BSB meeting last year.

[B]

Bikes have just as much right to race at any circuit as cars. Bike racing may be considered by some to be the poor relation, but the crowd figures suggest otherwise.



Like it or not, spectators are going to have get used to the idea of living with the changes made for their safety. In the litigious society in which we live, circuit owners, race organisers, etc., cannot afford to be complacent; blame the lawyers & the insurance companies. Catch fencing, big run-offs, spectator areas being moved back from the track are all part of the price you pay for the right to continue spectating. The alternative is......????

Sorry about my ignorance of the problems of bike racing.Hav'nt been to Brands or any current car circuit for bikes since the 70s. As to 'have to get used to it' seems from crowd figures that most people are doing the same as I am,and getting used to watching on TV instead.I last paid to enter a meeting at the first Rockingham CART in 2001.

[Woolley]

something digs in & the bike is flipped up into the air

You only have to see the dent in Race Control at Mallory - under the first floor window - to see what bikes can do while apparently sliding harmlessly. Think 'Rugby ball' if you want to predict it's flight.

racerkeke - love the sig. Those of us who worked Rockingham last year and met Irene and the very professional american crew were shocked when we heard the changes. It's another great example of organisers not understanding the resource they've got in the marsahlling fraternity, treating it as a nuisance instead.

[Elio]

jpc - thanks, I`m not going mad then! - I was at testing on the Friday morning and was sure I could remember it being up then! I`m not so sure it would cope with much being thrown at it though - it does look awfully flimsy. I get the feeling if you were to give it a big push at the bottom of Paddock then the ripple effect would go right the way round to Surtees!!! (if it were`nt for the breaks of course).

[Snapper Baz]

The fencing down on Cooper Straight was indeed a BMW M3-it was involved with a Austin Healey during Saturday general testing. The BM' hit at the barrier with great force and it broke 4 posts-hence the reason why the debris fencing came down (I also had a look at the BMW at Brands on Monday and the front end was very bad!)I also saw a Superbike hit the tall debris fencing outside the Foulstone centre about 3 years ago and I kid you not - the bike hit the tyre wall and got shot up at the fencing and hit it at about 8 or 9 foot up...had it been the normal debris fencing as per the rest of the circuit it would have cleared it with no problem and straight into the crowds!

[Woolley]

OK, merging thoughts from another thread in here:

Armco is supposed to deflect in order to absorb the impact and reduce the forces on the driver. Catch fencing is there to stop the wreckage going into the crowd/marshalling areas (although at most circuits, the marshals are in front of the catch fencing). The catch fencing must be solid, but is attached to the armco supports which are designed to break/move.

Car hits armco, fence falls down. Something here is doing the wrong job. What worries me, is I can take reasonable avoiding action for a car, but what do I do if the fence falls on me? May I suggest that someone in circuit inspection should be checking this out now, and giving the appropriate information to those who need it?

[chezza]

I have to agree with you there woolley!

What happens if a car happens to hit the catch fence? Is this going to knock the fence over? Where is this fence going to fall? I presume it would fall on the spectators it is supposed to be protecting, and I also presume that the car would follow?

Hmm...sounds very safe to me!!

[Rob29]

In case anyone does not think it will be that bad see photos in to-days Autosport page 100!

[Stephen Green]

Chezza, the fence would fall on the gap between the armco and the old debris fence in most cases. The marshals would be trapped if they were behind it. At last weekends meeting I instructed my team to stand in the 'gaps' at the end of the armco barriers for that very reason.

Please note there are NO holes or windows cut into the fencing for flag marshals or photographers. It is also being said that the fencing will remain up after the Indy Car race. Probably due to the contract running for a further 4 years?

[redshoes]

Stephen, how closely meshed is the fence? Big enough to poke a lens through or at least hold a lens close to without the fence getting in the way?

[Stephen Green]

Hmmm, it's the same mesh size as normal debris fence so it might be a bit touch and go whether you can get your lens through or not. Might be worth sending Baz a PM to ask him as he has first hand experience? For goodness sake don't ask him about his pies though

Are you going to be there for the Champ Cars Redshoes?

[gi_gav]

I've been following this thread closely because I'm travelling from St Andrews for all three days, primarily to take photos.

I'm still waiting to hear if I'm getting a media pass, but if not, the prospects of getting good shots seem pretty slim.

However, have a look at the role of catch fencing in Mario Andretti's crash at Indy yesterday and see if you're still against it...

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp...6&nav=9TahFPiv


A 'necessary evil' is my impression of the Brands fencing issue.