[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The sound issue will sort itself out. If a lack of sound turns people away, then the organising bodies and manufacturers will bring the sound back. So we'll just have to see.

No i don't think so... in the streets ppl are already used to very low sounds from cars (compared to a couple of decades ago)

Better will be mandatory in the circuits a multi channel closed TV circuit in the DT-H technology... you could pay some extra to have access to a digital key(or several) and the respective decoding device... and follow on your tablet/laptop/portable set **all the time** ( as long you like) your favorite car and or driver from *onboard* ( or more than one -> more than one key).

This will be different from regular TV transmissions... with frankly a stupid production program with 2/3 or more of the time focusing on the pit stops... this would bring many ppl to the circuits, i for sure would prefer to go whenever the chance than watch eurosport or something like that.

[ perhaps not a good idea ... without a earphone police LOL or something... i just imagine 10 thousand people in the same stadium balcony all with devices making sounds from transmissions onboard... that could be hell lol ... ummm... perhaps onboard transmissions but without sound.. boring ]

[FstrthnU]

Well, Audi's made it very clear they believe that sound is wasted energy. I think forcing manufacturers to keep/make their cars loud would have detrimental effects on their participation and engineering.

This is really the age old argument of sound vs. speed, which may be a false dichotomy. In the end, how many people will be attracted by technology vs. how many people will be turned away due to lack of noise? What is really the heart of racing's spectacle?

[Spyderman]

Getting back on to the 919 hybrid: According to John Dagys both the Audi and Porsche LMP1s are completing an endurance test tonight.
https://twitter.com/johndagys/status/441757356506902529

[PascaLM]

According to you, what should be approximately the absolute pressure given by the single turbo on this V4 engine producing around 500 hp at 9000 rpm and considering the limited consumption ? (I mean absolute pressure = atmospheric pressure + overpressure). The regulation says :"Ratio of supercharging pressure must not exceed 4.0".

[gwyllion]

Very nice interview with Neel Jani: http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/nee...avant-le-mans/

The vibrations issues of V4 have been resolved since the Bahrain test, where they were able to drive more than 1000 km in one day

Jani first tested the car in August. The track testing program has been very intensive. In 2013 they did at least one week of testing every three weeks In 2014 the intensity is a bit less: 4 to 6 weeks between testing sessions.

Jani misses the wider tyres from last year. The cockpit visibility has improved barely with the new rules.

He predicts that nobody will not show what they are capable during the WEC test at Paul Ricard and probably even not in Silverstone and Spa. The true potential will only be shown in Le Mans.

The hybrid systems are very parameterizable. They can choose release the electric power on the straights or at corner exits, depending on the track characteristics.

The car improves continuously. Another endurance test is planned before Le Mans.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by PascaLM

According to you, what should be approximately the absolute pressure given by the single turbo on this V4 engine producing around 500 hp at 9000 rpm and considering the limited consumption ? (I mean absolute pressure = atmospheric pressure + overpressure). The regulation says :"Ratio of supercharging pressure must not exceed 4.0".

Since the engine still revs fairly high (9000 rpm), the boost pressure will probably not be that high.

For reference, the 2013 LMP1 regulations restricted to turbo boost to 2.5 bar (absolute pressure) for 2.0 liter petrol engines and 2.8 bar for 3.7 liter diesel engines.

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

The sound issue will sort itself out. If a lack of sound turns people away, then the organising bodies and manufacturers will bring the sound back. So we'll just have to see.

I don't think this is gonna happen. New generations just will get used to more and more dull sounding race cars. And not everybody likes the noise. I've met some people who went to see the F1 but left the venue after 15 minutes because of the noise. But those weren't really motorsports fans rather than quasi-F1-fans who just got tickets from their employer.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by BudLightJaguar

I don't think this is gonna happen. New generations just will get used to more and more dull sounding race cars. And not everybody likes the noise. I've met some people who went to see the F1 but left the venue after 15 minutes because of the noise. But those weren't really motorsports fans rather than quasi-F1-fans who just got tickets from their employer.

That's what I mean. Either the masses will grow used to the lack of noise - or they won't, and then a solution will be found.

I just don't buy all this "silence will KILL the sport" nonsense that crops up whenever some fans talk about the new generation of powertrains.

All shall be well.

[vincegail]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

That's what I mean. Either the masses will grow used to the lack of noise - or they won't, and then a solution will be found.

I just don't buy all this "silence will KILL the sport" nonsense that crops up whenever some fans talk about the new generation of powertrains.

All shall be well.

For me sound is a huge part of the live experience. If the live experience doesn't differ much from the at home experience, I might give Le Mans a rethink.

You would never catch me at a Formula E race, for that matter. If Le Mans goes that way, it's bye bye for me.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by deggis

You think that exactly same original audio track of the video transformed into DTS/Dolby/whatever format would make the Porsche sound any louder? Recompressing and as a result lowering the audio quality doesn't magically remove perceived decibels from the exhaust note.

I suspect the real culprit here is the automatic level control of the camcorder.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by deggis

You think that exactly same original audio track of the video transformed into DTS/Dolby/whatever format would make the Porsche sound any louder? Recompressing and as a result lowering the audio quality doesn't magically remove perceived decibels from the exhaust note.

I never said it would. What audio compression does is it squashes the bass and treble frequencies, so all the mid range frequencies are more prominent, which to the human ear produces a more bland and colourless sound.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by hcl123

lol ... no!... get used to it... Porsche sound is very little higher than the Audi's diesel (and its a smaller engine).

golden rule... the higher the "efficiency" the lower and more choked or hushed the sound is( no fuel burning in the exhaust pipe)... and no matter if its a petrol, and in the future the distinction will be nill/zero/nada! lol..

Get used to what, audio compression?

[BudLightJaguar]

Originally Posted by vincegail

For me sound is a huge part of the live experience. If the live experience doesn't differ much from the at home experience, I might give Le Mans a rethink.

You would never catch me at a Formula E race, for that matter. If Le Mans goes that way, it's bye bye for me.

I agree with this. The sound is kind of 'aura', when you can - adding to hearing it - feel the power of the engines. It's the same thing with a 100 watt guitar amp.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I never said it would. What audio compression does is it squashes the bass and treble frequencies, so all the mid range frequencies are more prominent, which to the human ear produces a more bland and colourless sound.

Actually, compression reduces the dynamic range, eg difference between loudest and softest, selective compression can affect specific frequency ranges but generally diminishing high and low frequencies is filtering or just limited response as in poor fidelity.
I suspect the real culprit here is the automatic level control of the camcorder.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wdave0

Actually, compression reduces the dynamic range, eg difference between loudest and softest, selective compression can affect specific frequency ranges but generally diminishing high and low frequencies is filtering or just limited response as in poor fidelity.
I suspect the real culprit here is the automatic level control of the camcorder.

So you're saying compression can effect high and low frequencies?

[Japanese Samurai]

According to NIKKEI business channel,
The price of the sponsorship fee of DMG MORI is 1 billion yen in three years.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/44609239

[vincegail]

So 10 million dollars in 3 year. 3.333333 million per year.

Peanuts.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by vincegail

So 10 million dollars in 3 year. 3.333333 million per year.

Peanuts.

Agree 3,33 million $ is less than 2,5 million € per season, is not so great for a work team. I guess that Total is still the most generous sponsor among work teams

[carbon_titanium]

By the way, 1 billion of yen is less than 10 million of $, so nevermind... Maybe is barely enough to pay the salary of drivers.

[Christian Mogami]

The V4 vibrated so bad that the drivers could not stand it!

That was the problem when they started to test(I remember the test drivers not liking it but not saying why).So they changed the firing order(new crank) and that cause the delay in testing for awhile.

[BudLightJaguar]

A flat four - at least theoretically - would've been smoother running by nature. But of course it would've been also wider and maybe not fitting to the chassis.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The vibrations issues of V4 have been resolved .....

How did they resolve the vibrations issues?

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Since the engine still revs fairly high (9000 rpm), the boost pressure will probably not be that high.

For reference, the 2013 LMP1 regulations restricted to turbo boost to 2.5 bar (absolute pressure) for 2.0 liter petrol engines and 2.8 bar for 3.7 liter diesel engines.

That is another good issue... its not all about bashing FIA/ACO (for somethings they can be praised) ... max turbo pressure is maxed at 4 bar if IIRC, independent of fuel and or racing class... that is a lot! ( good thing).

So far usually max turbo pressure is regulated by a wastegate(bypass) valve usually set in a static parameter... now it could be electronic regulated and dynamic... meaning engines are not fixed to a max boost pressure and so to a max power, it can vary, it can vary even inside the same circuit on the same race.

That can make all things much more interesting ( an headache for engineers but not to worry they are payed well lol).

Porsche being 4 cylinders but turbo is not to worry , they can still derive lots of power and torque from that engine ( even so i think a V6 would had been much more elastic, better).. F1 4 cylinders turbocharged used to have sometimes over 1000 hp in qualifying and over 500 Nm... of course the higher the boost the stratospheric the fuel consumption is, and this is restricted, nevertheless it can be only in certain parts of a circuit, in overall they can catch up with the fuel flows allowed.. and that is why *ALL* advertise their engines with max figures that can be quite below the real capabilities ( 2014 can be faster).

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by deltawing

How did they resolve the vibrations issues?

balancing shafts perhaps !? ... no to worry the engine is already small and low weight.

[Spyderman]

Interesting interview with Mark Webber.
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/mar...du-pied-droit/