March 782

[Dan Rear]

Adam, some really interesting stuff there.

What does your writing say next to the Philpott 782, I can't make it out ! Also the notes next to the Williams 762, is it "ex Turnbull" ?

The Richards ex-Franklin car I presume is a 'real' 772, the ex-Zunino one DF had in 1978 ? The Harvey 792 ex-Henton is the one BH's team ran for Locher and Lopez in 79 is it ?

Finally the Ted Williams RT1 that he was entered in. Where did this car come from do you know ??

Questions, questions !!

[Adam Ferrington]

Dan,

The note against Philpott's car says "? ex Frank(lin), ex Rich(ards)" but I think this probably refers to Ames' car above.
As far as I remember this WAS a 752.

Yes, it does say ex Turnb(ull) against Williams' 762

I never saw Ted Williams in the Ralt RT1. No more idea as to which car this was.
But, does my memory tell me that Rob turnbull once drove a Ralt?

[Dan Rear]

Adam, from memory the Franklin/Richards car was a 742, ex Depailler I seem to recall. Rob T did have a RT1, from about 1976, nrand new I think, he later wrote it off I believe, though Catlow's Atlantic RT1 was said to be based on a damaged hillclimb tub...

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

AS report for the Atlantic round at Brands 15.3.81 describes Catlow's RT1 as 'ex Turnbull' and Catlow also used the car at end 1980.
Who had it before Turnbull?

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris, think Rob T had it from new, certainly it was one of the very early ones.

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

If Turnbull had it from new it must be mid 77 to end 77 as that is where gap in AF's Ralt records is [and we know 10 of those missing 24 cars from other sources]

My guess is 2h

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris, Turnbull had it the year after he dominated the 1600 class in Climbs with a BT35, was that '76. If so, then the RT1 was new from spring '77.

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

That narrows it to one of 3 cars
71, 74 or 75

we know production up to 70, 72 was Eden's car for Tony Rouff
73 was a Ralt American car for Craig Hill which went to NZ in the end
76 was for Mario Pati and 77, used by de Angelis and Brancatelli in F3 was delivered in June.

can we eliminate any other cars or do we have observations of this car in Turnbull's or Catlow's hands?

Chris

[Cameron Winton]

I have noticed this thread has drifted north of the border...
Early hillclimb memory is Rob Turnbull's RT1 well off at Doune, Apr 78 - Usually a sign that hefty damage had been incurred. Can't remember it being out after that -Did Rob get rid of it after that in a written off state?
Norrie Galbraith's B48 Chevron was "book ended" by two Marches. Prior to the Chevron, he had a 742 updated to, at least look like, a 782. Even at 13 years old, I could tell it was not a true 782. His 2nd march was a true 782 and sadly this was the car that he was killed in.
I remember Jim Stevenson's car was 742/782. I am not sure if that was Norrie's car or not.

[Dan Rear]

Chris, do you have access to the Chris Mason 'Uphill Racers'book ? I don't but I saw it once and was very impressed by its detail. I suspect the answer to the Turnbull RT1 may be contained in it.

Cameron, I'm certain the Stevenson car was the genuine 782, no 26, the ex South/Russell car.

[allenbrown]

Originally posted by Dan Rear
Chris, do you have access to the Chris Mason 'Uphill Racers'book ? I don't but I saw it once and was very impressed by its detail. I suspect the answer to the Turnbull RT1 may be contained in it.

On p283, Mason says it was "a new Ralt RT1 fitted with a 2.0 Cosworth BDG". His first outing appears to have been at Loton on 11 April so the car must have been delivered quite early. He isn't evident at the three Sprint Championship rounds before 11 April.

Originally posted by Dan Rear
Cameron, I'm certain the Stevenson car was the genuine 782, no 26, the ex South/Russell car.

Could Galbraith and Stevenson have done a swap? Or do we need to dig up the reference to Stevenson's car being South/Russell again and check?

Allen

[Dan Rear]

Allen, I'm certain Stevenson's was ex-Russell. Can't see why he would have swapped it for Galbraith's older car, unless he took it in part-ex and moved it on. Which year are we in here, 1981,82,83 ?? I recall he had the ex-Leslie/Duffield RT4 in about 1983, then a Mclaren M29C after that, and then the GRID ?

If he did take the ex-Norrie/Richards/Franklin 742, I wonder who had it from him.

[old wise one]

The ex Fabi 782 March i believe is with Warren Heron in Pukekohe ,New Zealand,I will confirm chassis number and inform on Monday,

[David McKinney]

That's actually another ex-works F2 car, c/no 16, raced by Fabi not in F2 but in the NZ F/Pacific series. Heron has owned it since 1983, I believe

[znarfg]

Yesterday I've saw the 78-2 S1. It's in the "Mobile Tradition" in Munich.

[Steve Wilkinson]

For Information:

The March 782-02 is currently in the ownership of Phil Price and has been for some time. As far as I can tell its ownership trail is as follows -

1978 Toleman Racing car delivered with Hart 420R fitting kit.
Rad Dougall raced the car throughout 1978.
Toleman were having problems with the Ralts so had the 782 chassis fitted with 792 sidepods.
Rad Dougall won the Thruxton Rd of the Euro F2 Championship in 782-02.
Toleman sold the car at the end of 1979 but here the trail goes cold until...
Paul Smith acquired the car and installed a 1.6 BDA for FAtlantic.
Smith later sold the car to Roger Orgee who continued to race the car in FAtlantic until he sold it as a roller to....
Les Edmunds in 1983. Les installed a 2.1 BDX and later a Hart 420R. Les then removed the engine and the 782 was pushed to the back of the garage whilst Les fitted the engine into a Sports Libre.
Phil Price acquired the car as a roller after Les Edmunds death (1995) and rebuilt it with a 2.5 Hart 420R. Phil still has the car sat in his garage and is open to offers!

[Dan Rear]

Steve, I don't think 782-2 went from Paul S to Roger O. Paul S used the car all thru' 1980, first in F At, then with a Hart in F2/Aurora. I saw Roger O's 782 in an April '80 Atlantic race at Mallory, Paul S was also there, so it can't have been the same car. I reckon Roger O's car may have been a 'bitza' based on his 742/772P tub.

I see that you live very close to me !!

[Steve Wilkinson]

With respect to the previous info:

This was given to me by Phil Price. He was closely linked with Les Edmunds rebuilding the Hart engine. Is it possible that the 782 went to Roger Orgee in some swap deal? Before being swiftly sold on to Les Edmunds?

DAN - Is there a NW get together soon?

[Dan Rear]

Steve, as soon as I know of one, we usually have them monthly, I'll let you know. Overon the 'other Forum', they're usually sorted out.

[Dan Rear]

For no apparent reason, I thought of 782s this morning, in particular the Martin Mansell F At car. From trawling the thread I don't think we ever clarified this one. Anyone any new thoughts in this area, its far too fluffy for TNF...

[Chris Townsend]

Have some more information on the Roger Orgee "772"
An ad for the car in A/S late 1979 says it was built in 1978 on a new tub.
As the car is described by Orgee in 1979 programmes as a "742/772P" I'm
guessing it was a new 742 tub - though we might want to speculate how new
that tub was in view of our knowledge of March's recycling practices - clad in
772P bodywork.

Would it have ever carried a plate? I rather doubt it.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Jeremy Shaw (who I usually trust as a good source) say "Andy Barton has acquired a new March 79B". Not sure about this one though, I reckon it was probably a 782 updated.

[Dan Rear]

Chris, I think we've speculated on this one before, IIRC the Orgee car had Friswell connexions, though it looked like a 77B/772P. In 1980 he described his car, presumably the same one, as a '782', and then a '79B'. I don't recall reading anywhere that he'd got a new car over the 79-80 winter, so I suspect it was the same one he'd had in '79, ie the 742/77B/772P/whatever (!!).

[Chris Townsend]

Dan
The Friswell connection was the engine, according to a little Autosport piece in June 79. Originally a Geoff Richardson BD series.

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Thanks Dan. Barton's "new" car is described as a 78/79B later in the year, so goodness knows.
It wasn't the ex Scheckter 77B further updated, because that's for sale alongside
the 78/79B at the end of 1979. Could be a real 78B underneath it all, but I'd agree
more likely 782.

Chris