BMW threaten pullout!

[neil_davidson2]

You may well be right Red, but if Max was to allow the teams freedom to choose their engine configurations (and that would be my preference by the way) then it would be obvious to everyone that he was not serious about the ECU.

[Red]

Of course he was not serious. How the heck does he want to fit standard ECU on different engines anyway? (but does sound good in next days' newspapers headlines: "Mximillian Rufus Mosley (sir) wants to remove all electronic aids from the F1")

[neil_davidson2]

That's my point - if he were to allow the differing engine formats then the headlines would read "Max abandons plans to fit standard ECUs" amongst other things. And that's a headline that he wouldn't want to see, so regardless of how serious he is (or how practical the suggestion is) Max has to keep up the appearance of sticking to his original announcement.

[Red]

Well, I guess Max wouldn't want to see headlines like "New Formuls 1: 1.5 liters, 4 cylinders engines, because the only engines available are the famous standard everything Skoda".. So basically it's about flexing muscles, but somehow I do suspect that Max' muscles are kinda out of shape...

[neil_davidson2]

And "Formula Skoda" is born!

[Red]

WV would be more than happy to sponsor the endeavour. But Formula 1 is it not. F3000, if you want, certainly not F1.

PS: Do we need another Formula Renault/Ford/Porsche supercup/whatever? Do we really need that? There's thousands already.

[Trafford]

Originally posted by DriverT
You could say that and it would be true. But Max and Bernie cannot just cave in to a manufacturer's every demand.

While I agree with what you say, there has to be a balance. True, the Manufacturers cannot Dictate the rules, after all, can you imaging what would happen if Man. Utd. turned round to the FA and said "We want to play with fourteen men or else we are pulling out of the Premiership"???? but on the other side of the coin, the FIA cannot arbritarily implement new rules either.

Unfortunately in it's drive to establish F1 as the pinnacle, the FIA AND the manufacturers have created a rod for their own backs. They have created a monster which is so big it cannot easily change direction and will not respond to a prod from just one side.

It needs coercion and co-operation. And it needs both FIA and teams manufacturers to grow up and act in their own mutual self-interest.

[Kicking-back]

This change to the engines was agreed in principle by all the teams.

But off too be bleating now.

[Red]

Well, actually it was not. It was agreed that "something needs to be done".

[Kicking-back]

Yes, but whenever doing anything is proposed, people on here say it will be the "end of F1".

It never is.

[Red]

But it will! The idea of different "formula" was not to have a 3 liters engine, but to categorize various types of cars in similar valoric groups. Not only that the recent proposals deny 50 years of F1 experience, but they do look like already existing competitions! Do we need this?

[JAG]

Well, well, what everyone predicted when F1 went down the manufactuer route at the expense of race teams, is begining to happen.

The sport is pulling itself apart with in fighting and personal/manufactuers self interests being put ahead of the good of the sport.

The 'racing' is so pitifully bad that viewers are turning off in droves, race day attendances are plumiting, costs are sky rocketing and manufactuers are becoming increasingly restless with their under performing F1 teams.

BMW also seem to be ignoring the fact that performance, as well as costs, now need to be cut. The cars are becoming scarely quick, and IMO very dangerous. IMO, it is only a matter of time before there is a very bad accident in F1.

Some posters also seem to think the manufactuers are in F1 'for the love of the sport'. Wrong, they will pull out on a whim, it is just one board room meeting away. Ferrari are the only manufactuer who will never leave F1, but Renault, BMW, Honda etc. have done it before and will do it again. You would never see Mclaren, Williams, Jordan, Minardi, Benneton etc. threatening to pull out of the sport would you.

Finally, I do find it hillarious the way some posters claim it will be the end of F1 if, heaven forbid, they run V8 engines. No doubt they would be horrified if the FIA prosed 1.5l Turbo engines, because 'it is smaller than a F3 engine', ignoring the fact they could pump out 1500BHP+.

When the narrow, 3l, treaded F1 cars arrived the drivers and fans where up in arms at the dumbing down and slowing of F1. Noe the cars are far, far quicker than any F1 car in histroy. It will always be like that. F1 is about pushing the envelope, and whatever the regs, the cars will always end up being as fast as they are now.

[Kicking-back]

While I think JAG overstates the extent of the crisis, I agree with him about not bending over backwards to manufacturers.

The need to cut speeds is, as he says, just as important as cutting costs.

A 2.4 litre V8 is no more out of step with F1's history than any other configuration.

[Red]

It is, KB. While previously a change in configuration meant only a couple extra bucks expenses, this is not true anymore.

[Kicking-back]

The size of the engine will not make the slightest bit of difference to the majority of viewers, so why are you so adamant this is a bad idea?

[JAG]

Kicking-back, I agree I exagerated a little, but as a big racing enthusiast and 'former' F1 fan, I do think those stil following the sport are totally unaware of the way the sport is now viewed by the 'outside world'.

Not to put to fine a point on it, the sport is considered a joke. Like it or not this is the truth. I don't like it, but thats the way it is.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by JAG
The sport is considered a joke. Like it or not this is the truth. I don't like it, but thats the way it is.

I honestly don't believe that.

But I agree we need to cut speeds and costs.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I honestly don't believe that.

But I agree we need to cut speeds and costs.

Nobody doubts the engineering excellence, and the fantastic drivers, but as a sport, when discussed on non-F1 programmes, it is very rarely discussed in a positive light. Talk to the average Joe Blogg about F1, and i doubt very much they would say anything positive about the sport.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by JAG
Talk to the average Joe Blogg about F1, and i doubt very much they would say anything positive about the sport.

A hell of a lot of them still watch it, then.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
A hell of a lot of them still watch it, then.

Thats the point, they don't watch it. They may tune in for the start, thats about it.

F1 has built itself up through huge TV ratings, and these are plumeting across the board.

[Kicking-back]

Plummeting rather overstates the situation - but you'll never keep everyone happy.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Plummeting rather overstates the situation - but you'll never keep everyone happy.

But, unlike other areas of the sport, F1 realies on the casual viewer. This why manufactuers are prepared to pump so much into the sport.

If only the entusiasts are left watching, manufactuers will reduce their F1 budgets.

[Kicking-back]

Which brings us back to the point - the manufacturers are not as important as they think they are.

[Gt_R]

Only Ferrari