Origins of Special Saloon Cars?

[big andy]

its funny now days we take photos/video/incar for granted in 1974 when my father started racing he never owned a camera said if he bought one he woudnt have had the money to go racing i think we have 6 photos of the mini and none of the lotus my dad does remember people with siny? cameras so there must somewere be lots of old footage about its just finding it

[Alan Raine]

I found another. Terry Crocker's Escort "parked" at Druids

[Gerry Taylor]

When I had one of my "off's" at Mallory Park, I remember lots of cameras clicking away and quite a few 8mm (Yes I know quaint arn't they) cine cameras whirring away, but where is all that footage? I suppose if it were possible a website could be started for 8mm and video enthusiasts. Where they could put there motor sport film/tapes on for all to see. I know there is youtube, but that is for anything, and everything, I mean just for all forms of motor sport. Bet that would turn up a few great bits of footage from the past. It could be put into years/seasons so you could go directly to the year that interested you.
Sorry Mod's, going on a bit there. Feel free to place under the correct heading once its been read.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Gerry Taylor

When I had one of my "off's" at Mallory Park, I remember lots of cameras clicking away and quite a few 8mm (Yes I know quaint arn't they) cine cameras whirring away, but where is all that footage? I suppose if it were possible a website could be started for 8mm and video enthusiasts. Where they could put there motor sport film/tapes on for all to see. I know there is youtube, but that is for anything, and everything, I mean just for all forms of motor sport. Bet that would turn up a few great bits of footage from the past. It could be put into years/seasons so you could go directly to the year that interested you.
Sorry Mod's, going on a bit there. Feel free to place under the correct heading once its been read.

Some stuff is coming to light, such as Roydpg great footage that's elsewhere on the Forum. I'm sure more will appear over time as new people log on to here and other sites like Atlas TNF etc.

Unfortunately I'm also afraid that some if it is lost. I had all sorts of slides and photos from early 70's Crystal Palace and Brands meetings but when I got married and moved 200 miles away, my mother in her wisdom, had a clear out and got rid of what she thought was things I didn't want!

I'm sure I'm not the only person that's happened to.

[driftwood]

i think it is only women who clear things out men horde ( unless they are gay! )

[MONDELLO MAN]

Originally Posted by Gerry Taylor

Lauries cars were as stated, mainly white. Sid & Mary were racing at a meeting at Mallory, in the late sixties, when Mary had her big shunt (we all have one folks) and I stopped to help get her out of her crumpled mini. Sid has always remembered me for that. I saw them both last year. Sid has a couple of restaurants in Birmingham city centre. I am unsure whether Sid sponsored Laurie or not. Here is a photograph I took of Laurie coming out of Shaws hairpin in about 1968/9. I am unsure who the mini drivers are.

Laurie raced in the Anglia andIIRC it was sponsored by Sid.

[pete21]

What are the chance's of starting a special saloon register to find out who has what cars, may be a born again race series for special saloons old & new but to comply with original rules & regs. just a thought would be fantastic.

[driftwood]

already a site started by some guy for sallons and modsports

[boyzee]

Photo,s from 1966, Terry Sangers mk1 cortina fitted with V8 and an anglia an a viva.

[driftwood]

was the Sanger Cortina a lotus cortina with F5000 lola corners fitted?

[Dan Rear]

The Viva is interesting, anyone recognise it?

[Mike Holmes]

Gerry, I have a load of photos up in the loft which I will try and dig out when I used to go racing with Basil Dagge, some of them must have you in them!!
Will try and have a look, also still have a few old programmes from that era.

[Gerry Taylor]

Originally Posted by Mike Holmes

Gerry, I have a load of photos up in the loft which I will try and dig out when I used to go racing with Basil Dagge, some of them must have you in them!!
Will try and have a look, also still have a few old programmes from that era.

Mike, that would be really kind of you. Baz and I got along really well, and he was fun to race against. What I would call a gentleman racer, easy to talk too, down to earth. Cheers Mike.
ps if you do find any pictures or programmes, and you would like to let me have copies, then please pm me for my address, so that you can send them or scan them to me personally. Once again, thanks Mike.
Gerry

[Gerry Taylor]

This was an early picture from 1967 at Mallory Park.

[Gerry Taylor]

OOps! Forgot the picture.
Here it is.

[Gerry Taylor]

Last try...........

[driftwood]

it looks like you have crashed n burned!
go find a grand child to help post the photo!

[Al Weyman]

Regards the title of this thread and where did it all start. I read an interesting article in an American book I have at home which is basically a compilation of magazine articles and it was asking a similar question how did the hotrod and modified car scene in the States start, and the answer they put forward surprisingly enough the UK Cafe racers of the 50's and 60's (who I am proud to say I was a part of and hence my interest in all things mechanical to this day) modifing their machines by grafting Vincent engines into Norton Featherbed frames etc. and not forgetting the obligatory clip ons and rearsets.

I thought it was refreshing that the yanks actually attributed something to us Brits and wonder if the theory also ports over to the origins of special saloons.

[Gerry Taylor]

Yeah Driftwood, your right, I really am useless at this. Can't think why, I have managed to put pictures on before. One more try, do you think? Nah, I'll possibly blow the pc up, then I shall have to go and stand in the naughty corner!

[ezwalk43]

Here is one to test the memory of the more senior members - does anyone else remember a 1300cc British championship round from Oulton Park being shown on Grandstand one saturday afternoon in '66 or '67 featuring an epic race between the two Superspeed Anglias and John Rhodes works Mini with cut back to the 1000cc class where John Fitzpatrick was ahead of the Fraser Imps. Saloon races were unheard of on the BBC back then but being a 20 lapper auntie managed to pull away part way through to show a horse race then drop back for the finish - and from memory the Fords won both classes. Now if that one has ever survived in a dark vault its one I'd pay to see again!

[Angus Theape]

Originally Posted by ezwalk43

Here is one to test the memory of the more senior members - does anyone else remember a 1300cc British championship round from Oulton Park being shown on Grandstand one saturday afternoon in '66 or '67 featuring an epic race between the two Superspeed Anglias and John Rhodes works Mini with cut back to the 1000cc class where John Fitzpatrick was ahead of the Fraser Imps. Saloon races were unheard of on the BBC back then but being a 20 lapper auntie managed to pull away part way through to show a horse race then drop back for the finish - and from memory the Fords won both classes. Now if that one has ever survived in a dark vault its one I'd pay to see again!

A general point and not just in this post, is that these are races run to international classes for the British saloon car championship. The cars are then the current model and built from homologated parts under the factory umbrella.
A genuine special saloon was generally built in an enthusiasts garage by himself and his mates from what they could lay their hands on and their ingenuity, then raced in club events. They were built to very loose rules which were gradually tightened to restore some form of balance among the cars, but were still very free compared to any homologated car. There was little chance of a special saloon ever getting a chance to race in above a national club meeting. An example of this is Johnathan Buncombe who raced his mini in club events one year and then modified the car, or demodified the car as the case may be to run the RAC saloon car championship the following year. One of the demods was fitting glass instead of perspex windows.

Its a bit like the Atlas board club racing photos where most of the posted photos are of F3 cars in British championships. Now drivers ocassionally entered F3 cars in genuine club meetings for usually starting money reasons, but F3 was never club racing.

[driftwood]

you are correct AT in the above statement but you will find that many homologated cars then filtered down to special saloon racers over the next 2 or 3 seasons to race
Some where modified with lighter panels maybe some woder wheels etc
Fraser Imps is a classic example 65 Gp2/5 car becomes 66 club car fibreglass bonnet boot wider rims
After reading my 71 2 73 Autosports i often came across saloon cars for sale that had origins in Broadspeed or alan mann racing teams

[Angus Theape]

Originally Posted by driftwood

you are correct AT in the above statement but you will find that many homologated cars then filtered down to special saloon racers over the next 2 or 3 seasons to race
Some where modified with lighter panels maybe some woder wheels etc
Fraser Imps is a classic example 65 Gp2/5 car becomes 66 club car fibreglass bonnet boot wider rims
After reading my 71 2 73 Autosports i often came across saloon cars for sale that had origins in Broadspeed or alan mann racing teams

That many homologated cars did find their way into club racing there is no doubt, but their sheer cost was beyond most competitors means. In many cases they were often faster than the home produced special if capacity limits of the class were in place.

There is no substitute for capacity or £s.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Angus Theape

That many homologated cars did find their way into club racing there is no doubt, but their sheer cost was beyond most competitors means. In many cases they were often faster than the home produced special if capacity limits of the class were in place.

There is no substitute for capacity or £s.

This is correct. A couple of hundred quid more for an ex-works car was out of the question for most club racers. Seems daft when a couple of hundred is almost pocket money today.
To put it into perspective I purchased my first house in late 1970, just after I got married, a 3 bed semi on an estate for £3,850 - a 4 bed detached just round the corner on the same estate was £4,325 but totally out of the question in terms of me being able to afford it.

[Angus Theape]

Originally Posted by morninggents

This is correct. A couple of hundred quid more for an ex-works car was out of the question for most club racers. Seems daft when a couple of hundred is almost pocket money today.
To put it into perspective I purchased my first house in late 1970, just after I got married, a 3 bed semi on an estate for £3,850 - a 4 bed detached just round the corner on the same estate was £4,325 but totally out of the question in terms of me being able to afford it.

In motoring terms in the 60s, a gallon of petrol was under 25p, maybe 26 for what became 5 star. A spark plug was 25p. 30p for a projected nose plug, which was the first price rise in over 35 years.