Having doubts?

Wrex · 10 Jun 2004, 00:35 (Ref:999206)

At one point or another, we have all jumped on the bandwagon of an up and coming driver. But have you ever decided to get back off it?

Much to Inigo's displeasure, I recently departed Fisi's bandwagon. About a year ago, Ralf lost me as well.

Anyone having second thoughts about anyone. Has any driver failed to live up to the expectation you once gave them?

GP Racer · 10 Jun 2004, 00:44 (Ref:999209)

Hmmm, interesting...

I have to say, I'm just beginning to doubt Mark Webber. I know, I know, his car is garbage, his team is in disarray, and he still beats his teamate, but the fact is, he is looking very average this year. He has done nothing to seperate himself from the pack, like he did last year.

He cannot give-up, but it's beginning to look like he has...

Wrex · 10 Jun 2004, 00:59 (Ref:999214)

Ohhh, thats gonna get some hairs up

Note : Remember people, this does'nt have to be a fight. Eveyone can have their opinion regardless of if you agree with it. So a reply is'nt required, just tell us what you think.

**Dani Filth** · 10 Jun 2004, 00:59 (Ref:999215)

even if I have second thoughts about a driver(no . not MS

).. i'll never say it in public

freud · 10 Jun 2004, 01:28 (Ref:999220)

Quote:

Originally posted by GP Racer
Hmmm, interesting...

I have to say, I'm just beginning to doubt Mark Webber. I know, I know, his car is garbage, his team is in disarray, and he still beats his teamate, but the fact is, he is looking very average this year. He has done nothing to seperate himself from the pack, like he did last year.

He cannot give-up, but it's beginning to look like he has...

Alright.. I'm not gonna fight you

but I just completely and vehemently disagree with you.

Webber is the best thing to happen to f1 for years and he is impressing me with every passing day. Have you forgotten his exceptional drive at the nurburgring?? I know that people doesnt like him because he's a tough Aussie who kicks a***. But Imho he's got the right attitude to take on the pre-madonnas in top cars. The guy has got guts and he has what it takes. I can bet my bottom cent on him becoming a champ one day.

Now, who has disappointed me... its our good old TGF. And before you start pulling my leg, let me tell you the reason:

I am just

off that even after winning five titles, he isnt willing to give an inch to his teammate. He isnt just willing to 'compete'. If I were him, I would say what the heck, man, I want a real fight. Doesnt TGF say to himself 'what is my real level??", 'where do I stand??'..

Anyway.. I have tremendous respect for his abilities. He's a great driver with such a child-like approach to racing, it just makes me think.. 'what a shame'.

fast95pony · 10 Jun 2004, 01:35 (Ref:999222)

I've jumped ON to Button's bandwagon.He's matured and he's got a good car and he's getting the results..

grumpy1 · 10 Jun 2004, 01:53 (Ref:999232)

freud what you said on both counts.
On the TGF thing his only thinking is for future generations (ie my sons) he will be known as the greatest ever.When where all gone the history books will show only results.There will be no-one to remind everyone the,unfortunatly,Rubans is Michaels lap dog and only allowed to win if MS crashes or breaks down.The stats never tell that and they never lie.
Call me cynical if you want but remember I have emence respect for the driver and team but not the meathod used to achive the goal.

The Grumpy1

Wrex · 10 Jun 2004, 02:06 (Ref:999237)

Quote:

Originally posted by fast95pony
I've jumped ON to Button's bandwagon.He's matured and he's got a good car and he's getting the results..

Me too!

I did'nt have many good things to say about him a while back (and stand by those thoughts at the time), but he really has stepped up the last 2 seasons.

Wrex · 10 Jun 2004, 02:11 (Ref:999238)

Quote:

Originally posted by grumpy1
Rubans is Michaels lap dog and only allowed to win if MS crashes or breaks down.

Perhaps he is incapable of winning unless MS crashes or breaks down.

We already have one thread on this, so lets stick to everyone else shall we.

I have to say, I have'nt given up yet, but both Montoya and Kimi are failing to live up to the expectations I had for them.

GP Racer · 10 Jun 2004, 02:18 (Ref:999241)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
I have to say, I have'nt given up yet, but both Montoya and Kimi are failing to live up to the expectations I had for them.

And you said my post was going to raise some hairs!

You just knocked 2 of F1's golden boys in one post!

JohnSSC · 10 Jun 2004, 02:36 (Ref:999244)

I thought Webber was going to be much more of a force than Button this year.

Realizing of course that the BAR is no longer the BARF (and I publicly apologized regarding that if you will kindly recall), I just thought that Webber was really showing last year that he was ready to up his game closer to the level of the boys at the top 3 teams (as of the end of last season.

It just does not seem that he is extracting the maximum this year as he was last year. Again, that could be the car more than the driver.

grumpy1 · 10 Jun 2004, 03:13 (Ref:999262)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex
Perhaps he is incapable of winning unless MS crashes or breaks down.

We already have one thread on this, so lets stick to everyone else shall we.

I have to say, I have'nt given up yet, but both Montoya and Kimi are failing to live up to the expectations I had for them.

Bit hard on Kimi.Maybe that should be directed at thoose responsible for his engins.

Your saying Rubans is as good as MS

JPM's heart belongs to The Mac and he said so at the start of the year.Why Frank didn't sack him I don't know

Inigo Montoya · 10 Jun 2004, 03:32 (Ref:999272)

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrex

Much to Inigo's displeasure, I recently departed Fisi's bandwagon. About a year ago, Ralf lost me as well.

Shame on you Wrex! You'll soon be back on it, my friend

Jumped on alot of them - Jenson and Mark's to name two. One guy I expected much more from is Heidfeld, but then again, he's a junior Fisi: stuck with a **** car. My worst fear is that Mark will end up like them as well.

ljakse · 10 Jun 2004, 05:35 (Ref:999297)

Quote:

Originally posted by grumpy1
Bit hard on Kimi.Maybe that should be directed at thoose responsible for his engins.

Agreed.

avsfan733 · 10 Jun 2004, 05:40 (Ref:999300)

Alonso...less effort on hair more on driving

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jun 2004, 05:57 (Ref:999309)

Although some people have seen me as a Ralf apologist I have never been on any driver's bandwagon. However I did get a bit peeved with the pro JPM anti Ralf tripe that was put about previously.

The change in Mickey-the-Shoe's attitude has pleased me. I have always liked is enthusiam but some of his moves really did dissapoint. But now we can tell that we are watching a true master at work. Even the mistakes give us all pleasure just to show he is human after all.

I've been a Button supporter since his arrival. And here comes a Ralf reference again. Most people said he was good because he was capable of beating Ralf. Then most people said Ralf was useless. Go figure.

So Button is one of my favourites.

I'll never be a JPM fan because to me he whines too much, but I can acknowledge his approach this year which is a step up from previous seasons.

Never seen the attraction of Fisi. Nice bloke but there it stops.

Kimi is good to watch, likewise Alonso. But niether are shining this year (for various reasons). Trulli? For me the jury is still out. He needs to put more consistency into his game.

Mark W? Again a great bloke and can make a car work but............. nah, can't say I'm over impressed. A point for Minardi in his debut race is where it stops for me.

Sato. Hmm. Too inconsistent and over enthusiastic. But exciting for all that.

Never rated DC and never will.

So I don't think I'm about to jump on any bandwagons but if Ant gets that Williams seat there'll be lots to cheer about in my living room.

hamsmith · 10 Jun 2004, 06:22 (Ref:999314)

Montoya was the one i feel let down by. I think in the later part of last season the pressure got to him and he couldn't cope. I know he had some bad luck and everything and that contributed to him not winning the WDC but at the same time he seamed to of lost focus.

neil_davidson2 · 10 Jun 2004, 08:32 (Ref:999396)

Likewise. I had high hopes that Monty would be the one to come in and challenge the establishment. There's still time for him to do this but he needs to get focused and stop suffering from occasional brain fade.

The one bandwagon that I really leapt clear of was Alonso, and that was for that idiotic moment in Brazil in the rain; IMHO he should have been excluded from the race for his actions, but it was all put down to "youthful exhuberance".

**garcon** · 10 Jun 2004, 09:17 (Ref:999429)

Jumping on the latest bandwagon is the easiest thing in the world to do - if a driver is hyped so much by the media, it's difficult not to allow some of it to soak in.

Jumping mid-flow from one bandwagon to another is pretty easy too... every time the new 'hot thing' is hyped, it makes your driver look a little less 'shiny'. Just look at some of the incoming drivers that have been hyped up to messiah level and now seem to have faded a little - Montoya two years ago, Raikkonen, Alonso last year, Webber. The current 'hot thing' is Jenson. Who knows who's turn it'll be next season. It's all part of the media market. Just because your driver isn't this year's media darling, don't lose faith in him. I don't think there's any less chance of Montoya, Raikkonen, Alonso or Webber becoming a WDC now than there was when they enjoyed the hype.

I have high hopes for Christian Klien. He just seems to have that little extra psychologically. But such is the way of F1 that his light may never get the chance to shine any brighter than it has already - deserved or not.

**Stephen Green** · 10 Jun 2004, 09:40 (Ref:999447)

I remain on the Button bandwaggon but sadly have to retire from the Heidfeldt trolley.

When at the Goodwood FOS some years back when Nick was the McLaren test driver I overheard the team raving about Nick, saying he was the next Mickey the Shoe blah blah blah. Sadly, for various reasons he hasn't managed to live up to their expectations.

For me the jury is still out on Sato...

ozrevhead · 10 Jun 2004, 09:45 (Ref:999454)

Ummm No - I haven't 'jumped off the bandwagon' and I don't intend to. IMHO Mark will make it in F1 is a question of when he will get a decent car!

what most ppl tend to forget that the Jaguar is one of the worst cars realiabity wise on the grid & most drivers would struggle with this. Look @ kimi and monty - they would be better off if their cars & engines would keep up & same with Mark!

Give Mark Webber a decent, competitive car and lets see what he can do!

ASCII Man · 10 Jun 2004, 09:52 (Ref:999460)

I never do any 'bandwagon hopping', never did and never will do anyway. I see one driver that i like and i stick by it, no matter what. I stopped watching F1 when my favourite driver 'stopped' once

, and will probably do so again if there's absolutely no chance that Jacques will return.
Even though alot of people here are more than willing to "prove" that he won't return, i'll just wait until the Williams/Toyota/Whatever lineup is decided for 2005 to decide if i'll bother to watch it further.

'Blablabla, blablabla' i hear you think...

**garcon** · 10 Jun 2004, 10:07 (Ref:999475)

Nothing wrong in that ASCII. But keep an eye on F1, even if you don't watch every race - you never know when a new driver will turn up who re-ignites your interest.

Gt_R · 10 Jun 2004, 10:09 (Ref:999479)

Quote:"I see one driver that i like and i stick by it, no matter what."

Yepp, me too. But i won't exactly stop at one. It's more about the skill and the attitude that gets me hooked on a driver...

I won't exactly say i jump on the bandwagon of the current crops of drivers...i just follow who i admire, without really letting the hype get into me.

I wasn't one who jumped at the sight of JPM/Kimi. 4 years down, we know both didn't really fulfill the hype. I started of with cautions and some doubt, despite being aware of their potential...people were all raving how these guys would get into a good car and shatter MS, but i'd rather wait and see it happen.

I kinda warm up to the (different) skills these 2 guys showed...and it gains on me. They may not be perfect but their driving style/approach are interesting in certain ways, and i'm more and more convinced. But while i also grew to like the character of Kimi, i'm not quite as keen on JPM.

And lately, drivers like Button, Webber have a chance to show what qualities they possess, and i'm quite impressed with what i see. And that i guess is the main point, to judge things on what you see rather than listening to the hype.

Every new F1 driver came into F1 as the next big thing...and only the rare gem really shine.

Kicking-back · 10 Jun 2004, 10:28 (Ref:999495)

Really can't understand those who say Kimi's not living up to the hype.

Last year he finished 2 points off being World Champion.

This year his engine blows up every race, and is down on power.

If the MP4-19B is as good as the team hope, Kimi will remind you how good he is.

As for bandwagons, I respect all the drivers.

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