Crowds

n.kuiper · 29 Jul 2007, 05:58 (Ref:1975565)

hey i was just wondering who has a bigger crowd and tv audience champ cars or indy cars

NAC · 29 Jul 2007, 07:54 (Ref:1975604)

That’s an interesting question, some may not like it but interesting all the same.

My gut feel is going to say IRL but after Scott Dixon left Champ Car and headed of to IRL we just don’t get Champ Car coverage in NZ anymore so I have to confess my decision is gut only and without evidence.

The other thing to take into consideration is that Champ Car do have an extra 2 races in their season (IRL 17 races & Champ Cars 19 races) but then again IRL has got the Indy 500 with some 400,000 in attendance plus the TV coverage. Hard one to pick, maybe someone from the States can help with real data.

luke · 29 Jul 2007, 09:33 (Ref:1975652)

Attendance wise CC, but people at tf insists that CC lies about the attendances and in actual fact they are small.

It's swings and round-a-bouts really. The IRL obviously has the indy 500, Kansas and Iowa had good attendance.

TV ratings wise in the US they are around the same = poor.

D.R.T. · 29 Jul 2007, 12:52 (Ref:1975746)

Quote:

Originally Posted by n.kuiper

hey i was just wondering who has a bigger crowd and tv audience champ cars or indy cars

I dont think there is anything to be gained by either side by the result of such a question

Knowlesy · 29 Jul 2007, 20:24 (Ref:1975936)

All that can be said is neither side are really good enough. Or could, at least, do better with some direction applied.

JamesRamone · 29 Jul 2007, 21:10 (Ref:1975971)

champ cars city street races seem to get attended well. Ditto probably to IRLs street race, as well as obviously Indy. But like Knowlesy says, neither are good enough. I know its been said every day for 10 years now, but id like a merger. Mainly for the depth in field.

NAC · 29 Jul 2007, 21:16 (Ref:1975976)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesRamone

I know its been said every day for 10 years now, but id like a merger. Mainly for the depth in field.

That would be nice but it will either be a very big field and I cant really see that happening or leave a lot of drivers without a drive. Even so will it up the ratings if it did merge??

luke · 29 Jul 2007, 21:21 (Ref:1975980)

TBH I'd love to have a merge but TBH I doubt it would make that much difference. AOWR is in a poor state now. There isn't direction and most fans from CC and IRL watch both series so I doubt it would make that much difference ratings wise. However I think it would attract old fans who get fed up and new fans.

But both series together would be very good for both as they both need each other.

Either will die if there isn't a merge. Came very close last year, parties from both sides still are trying to push for a merge but Kk and TG aren't interested anymore and both are doing thir own direction now with both series.

deejay · 29 Jul 2007, 22:50 (Ref:1976019)

Yeah, problem is there can't be a merge without TG admitting he was wrong... even if looking at the shape of the IRL now compared to what drove him to create it he practically has admitted that. Merging with champcar now would basically be a full return to the CART model - I don't see TG conceding that. I think it's going to take one series collapsing and teams being forced to the other simply for somewhere to race.

Which would not be a good scenario...

It almost happened in the early 2000's with champcar, but they've managed to limp through. Ironically it might have been better if it had died then, there might have been a chance of Newman-Haas etc. moving across...

deejay · 29 Jul 2007, 22:53 (Ref:1976021)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAC

That would be nice but it will either be a very big field and I cant really see that happening or leave a lot of drivers without a drive.

Oh noes, Milka won't have a drive!

NAC · 30 Jul 2007, 01:14 (Ref:1976048)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deejay

Yeah, problem is there can't be a merge without TG admitting he was wrong... ...

And that is just not going to happen

marcus · 30 Jul 2007, 01:16 (Ref:1976050)

how did this go from crowds to a merger ??

Lets try and keep on topic shall we please

Mr Jinxx · 30 Jul 2007, 10:31 (Ref:1976268)

I guess the common thread is that if there was a merger (or if CC was just left to die a death) then the crowds would be likely to increase. Better TV coverage is a key to it, I think - it's poor. Reducing the prize money a little, and upping the TV coverage would help to increase the exposure and therefore the crowds - street races are great for crowds, but so are some of the ovals ... one series, howsoever it comes about, could really capitalise on that. Crowds need entertaining at a race weekend, and that needs addressing too. Improve the show.

n.kuiper · 31 Jul 2007, 06:20 (Ref:1976879)

i think a merger is the only way for either of them to grow and also you wouldnt lose to many drivers because the grids arent exactly packed a 40 car field would be great

Dutton · 31 Jul 2007, 06:43 (Ref:1976889)

Regerettably, I believe we are stuck with more or less the current situation until one side dies.

The Saint · 31 Jul 2007, 13:33 (Ref:1977253)

There was a huge crowd at mid-Ohio for the IRL race, but let us not forget that Honda have a big car plant in Ohio, and it has been suggested that Honda gave away a lot of free tickets. The same can be said of Champ Car at Vegas this year. The season opener was FREE to watch for everyone apart from those in the grand-stand seating on the start/finish line.

nycuk · 31 Jul 2007, 15:09 (Ref:1977336)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saint

If one series was to go under, I have no doubt at all that it would be Champ Car

Sadly I agree. As the IRL keeps adding road courses to their schedule it might attract some CCWS teams across, also of course the chance to race at the Indy 500.
It would only take one or two of the top teams to make the switch and ChampCars would effectively be over.

paul-collins · 31 Jul 2007, 15:41 (Ref:1977363)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Saint

There was a huge crowd at mid-Ohio for the IRL race, but let us not forget that Honda have a big car plant in Ohio, and it has been suggested that Honda gave away a lot of free tickets.

Definitely true. Honda actually has multiple facilities in the Mid Ohio area - Marysville (motorcycles and cars), Anna (engines), Russells Point (transmissions) and East Liberty (cars). They made, from all accounts, 22,000 tickets available to employees and family (up to four per family).

That might be 35-40% of the attendance, which I'm sure is going to push 50k for the Saturday and 60k for the Sunday.

I hope the folks at Alliston get a similar incentive given to them to attend Mosport for the ALMS! Not that Mosport needs the help, though.

luke · 31 Jul 2007, 16:50 (Ref:1977430)

Mi-Ohio did get a big attendance all be it due to a big percentage of free tickets and being with the ALMS but it is still impressive. There are big CC and IRL races it's just the rest usually lack pretty much everything. Time will tell.

Tim Northcutt · 31 Jul 2007, 19:13 (Ref:1977557)

The problem is that for on-site atendance, you are comparing apples to oranges in numbers, because CCWS counts the three-day totals and the IRL promoters count race day only at their venues.

FWIW

marcus · 31 Jul 2007, 22:53 (Ref:1977704)

and is it significant ??

Probably LOL

But you have to take into account plent of things such as Location of the track compared to sorrounding population , also what kind of show is the entire weekend putting on compared to just the "main show"

and probably heaps of other things such as how easy is it to get to the place , accomodation nearby for out of towners.

for example using another series , the V8 supercars one of the best events of the year is the round held at Winton , its in the middle of nowhere and doesnt pull a massive crowd (but a great one for its location) so therefore its a success because the fans love it but im guessing the corporate blokes in charge may not because its not a huge revenue earner.

Ticket prices are another thing as well , I have no idea of comparable prices in CC and Indycar but one maybe a huge price and the other maybe alot cheaper (all comes back to value for money for us punters)

so to shut me up , I agree with Tim its apples and Oranges , its pretty hard to compare attendences when you take some of these things (and probably more as well) into consideration.

I'd like to see a combined weekend between the 2 series , 2 series , 1 track both headlining the bill.

I'd pay top dollar for that

NAC · 1 Aug 2007, 00:40 (Ref:1977753)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

so to shut me up , I agree with Tim its apples and Oranges , its pretty hard to compare attendences when you take some of these things (and probably more as well) into consideration.

I'd like to see a combined weekend between the 2 series , 2 series , 1 track both headlining the bill.

I'd pay top dollar for that

That my friend is a very good idea and I would pay to go see that, it would be absolutely fantastic. Trouble is it would never happen in a million years.

Tim, why do IRL only count race day? do you have any figures on the entire weekends?

Alex K · 1 Aug 2007, 09:11 (Ref:1977981)

When they raced head-to-head this year ICS's TV rating was twice as high as CCs.

The Saint · 1 Aug 2007, 13:47 (Ref:1978248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

The problem is that for on-site atendance, you are comparing apples to oranges in numbers, because CCWS counts the three-day totals and the IRL promoters count race day only at their venues.

FWIW

I don’t know how they could legitimately do this. IRL and CC races normally are part of a package. I used to live in Kansas and the IRL race there was part of a three series weekend. You could NOT buy tickets for one event only. One of the races was a Craftsman Truck race, which is VERY popular with the redneck…..ooops sorry NASCAR fans.

If IRL calculated the crowds over three days, they would be MUCH larger indeed!

Champ Car race weekends often are tied into ALMS series and other events. They should calculate crowds on race day only.

D.R.T. · 2 Aug 2007, 14:08 (Ref:1979086)

They state its a weekend crowd though, no attempting to push it off as a race day crowd.

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