Audi R10 rear aero

Trussers · 16 May 2008, 08:47 (Ref:2203773)

I am sure you guys (and girls) have seen the pictures on DSC of Audi's tail section that they tried out at Spa in advance of Le Mans, but it is an additional wing element, way down low, parallel to the main wing, about 10cm above the rear deck. This implies to me that they want additional downforce. Now to me, additional downforce always comes at the expense of drag, so Audi must have enough, if not more than enough, horsepower, wouldn't you agree? Normally, higher speed call for less downforce at Le Mans. Although it may be that by using this configuration they can run less angle on the main element for the same downforce.

Also, has anyone established a definitive reason for Capello's wheel falling off last year? If there has been an official announcement, I've missed it.

(and if you lot have already done the subject to death, please accept my apologies, but I don't have the time to spend all my days on forums - not even ones as good as this!)

**Aysedasi** · 16 May 2008, 08:52 (Ref:2203778)

I suspect Mulsanne Mike may have a view on the Audi's aero Paul - for me, anything that slows the darned things down has to be good......

olly83 · 16 May 2008, 08:54 (Ref:2203782)

I thought his wheel came off because during the pitstop immediately before the accident, the car was dropped from the jacks before the wheel was fully on.

**Aysedasi** · 16 May 2008, 08:55 (Ref:2203783)

Was it actually the first lap out?

olly83 · 16 May 2008, 09:03 (Ref:2203790)

I thought it was. could have been the second. I was standing on the terraces immediately infront of the audi garage when the accident was shown on the big screen. It was still fairly early (7ish i think) when it happened and i was having a stroll to try and warm up!

vorsprung · 16 May 2008, 09:10 (Ref:2203792)

IIRC the wheel came after 8 laps or something.

Endurance-Info had an article about the "wing". Prémat says it improves stability in braking and in fast corners. According to Ralf Jüttner they now get same downforce with less drag. Iterestingly #2 had a full set of fender louvers in Spa and #1 had minimal louvers, also #2 ran all three LMS races with same engine.

brielga · 16 May 2008, 09:23 (Ref:2203803)

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly83

I thought his wheel came off because during the pitstop immediately before the accident, the car was dropped from the jacks before the wheel was fully on.

you can see the mishap in the official Le Mans 07 DVD... there's an issue with the wheel tightening and the mechanic tries to "repair" the situation with the car on the ground already... unsuccessful as Dindo found out.

olly83 · 16 May 2008, 09:24 (Ref:2203805)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorsprung

IIRC the wheel came after 8 laps or something.

Well it was early in the morning and I'd had no sleep so I'm willing to concede that my sense of time may have become a little confused!!!!

gwyllion · 16 May 2008, 09:56 (Ref:2203826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorsprung

According to Ralf Jüttner they now get same downforce with less drag.

He also says it improves air flow around the wheel, the wing, and the diffuser.

zac510 · 16 May 2008, 09:57 (Ref:2203827)

Trussers, the new rear wing element strikes me as a LMS/ALMS thing only.. As you said this will come with a drag penalty and that's not what you want at LM. And Spa is known as a fairly high downforce circuit. If it behaves in a similar way to these wings on single seater cars then it's mainly there to aid the underbody aerodynamics rather than generate outright downforce itself.

**Aysedasi** · 16 May 2008, 10:03 (Ref:2203829)

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly83

I thought it was. could have been the second. I was standing on the terraces immediately infront of the audi garage when the accident was shown on the big screen. It was still fairly early (7ish i think) when it happened and i was having a stroll to try and warm up!

Well, well, we were probably standing no more than a few hundred metres apart then - at the most........

I was having a stroll too - not to warm up - simply to stay awake!

zac510 · 16 May 2008, 10:07 (Ref:2203836)

Was just looking atthe pic on EI again - I noticed the area above the particulate filter has been cut out. I've never noticed that before?
Is it a change that goes with the deck wing immediately above it?

Trussers · 16 May 2008, 10:48 (Ref:2203862)

Cor blimey... less than two hours since I posed the question and 11 answers already. Don't any of you have jobs to do?

Zac, I would agree that it looks a bit like LMS only modification, but for Juttner being quoted as saying: "a small development towards Le Mans in our rear bodywork section." Maybe stability / driveability is indeed the answer. As for the hole in the rear deck, I think you're right, it goes with the wing element.

As for the 2007 #2 lost wheel - there needs to be a correction of some of the points made above. In fact Capello was on his 15th lap on that set of wheels before the wheel came off. He had been out for 49 minutes (including a fuel-only stop), so I fail to see how it can have been due to the car being dropped off the jacks too early. Although it was the second time that it had happened (dropping the car too early), so maybe it was a contributing factor.

I will also admit that some of my colleagues on RLM went a bit overboard at the time in their reaction to the initial Audi statement that the wheel had been affixed correctly, and that some other failure had caused Capello's crash.

Partly I was being mischievous in asking the question, as I know how these myths get perpetuated, but I have been met with a stony silence on the subject whenever I have tried to get an answer through "official" Audi channels (which I have to say are usually very co-operative).

MulsanneMike · 16 May 2008, 10:49 (Ref:2203864)

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorsprung

IIRC the wheel came after 8 laps or something.

Endurance-Info had an article about the "wing". Prémat says it improves stability in braking and in fast corners. According to Ralf Jüttner they now get same downforce with less drag. Iterestingly #2 had a full set of fender louvers in Spa and #1 had minimal louvers, also #2 ran all three LMS races with same engine.

Seems to let them run the main wing flap at less angle as you wouldn't expect Audi to run more drag at a place like Spa (and it's been explained as part of a Le Mans update).

zac510 · 16 May 2008, 11:02 (Ref:2203873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trussers

Zac, I would agree that it looks a bit like LMS only modification, but for Juttner being quoted as saying: "a small development towards Le Mans in our rear bodywork section."

Can't really argue with that then!

The Badger · 16 May 2008, 11:44 (Ref:2203910)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I suspect Mulsanne Mike may have a view on the Audi's aero Paul - for me, anything that slows the darned things down has to be good......

Like Mike Rockenfeller you mean ?

Justin Moran · 16 May 2008, 11:47 (Ref:2203911)

Or the wall at Tetre Rouge!

**Aysedasi** · 16 May 2008, 11:48 (Ref:2203912)

You mean Tertre Rouge Mike..........

minimangler · 16 May 2008, 13:50 (Ref:2204024)

It's a le mans modification, for sure. They will have used spa to sort their le mans aero, surely? I'd guess that we'll see little or no louvres at le mans, or maybe a split (again). if they say it has same downforce for less drag, who are we to disagree?

MulsanneMike · 16 May 2008, 14:06 (Ref:2204043)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

It's a le mans modification, for sure. They will have used spa to sort their le mans aero, surely? I'd guess that we'll see little or no louvres at le mans, or maybe a split (again). if they say it has same downforce for less drag, who are we to disagree?

Pretty sure the regulations regarding louvers is still on the books so they most certainly will have some semblance of louverage on the car at Le Mans.

The Badger · 16 May 2008, 14:15 (Ref:2204054)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

You mean Tertre Rouge Mike..........

The very man himself .

I suppose your perfect Audi squad would be Rockenfeller-Biela-Gounon !!!

The Badger · 16 May 2008, 14:16 (Ref:2204058)

Quote:

Originally Posted by minimangler

It's a le mans modification, for sure. They will have used spa to sort their le mans aero, surely? I'd guess that we'll see little or no louvres at le mans, or maybe a split (again). if they say it has same downforce for less drag, who are we to disagree?

But Le Mans is usually about low downforce ?

Maybe its an LMS/ALMS mod ?

minimangler · 16 May 2008, 14:58 (Ref:2204089)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

But Le Mans is usually about low downforce ?

Maybe its an LMS/ALMS mod ?

Read what has been said earlier in the thread- less drag, same downforce, better high speed corner stability.

chernaudi · 17 May 2008, 02:29 (Ref:2204491)

What I'm wondering about is how they'd get the rear deck off the car with that wing attacted to it and the main wing struts.

HORNDAWG · 17 May 2008, 02:52 (Ref:2204494)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chernaudi

What I'm wondering about is how they'd get the rear deck off the car with that wing attacted to it and the main wing struts.

Its not attached to the center (main) wing struts. It is slotted (formed) around them.

L.P.

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