Top Hat Touring Car Races

[Peter Mallett]

Now here’s an interesting idea.

Julius Thurgood is a motor trader dealing in classic and historic cars. He’s also a racing enthusiast. Last year he organised a one-hour classic/historic touring car race at Silverstone. This year it has developed into a series known as the Top Hat series and will race at Brands Hatch, Silverstone and Spa. All one-hour, two driver, races.

Entry is by invitation but the cars can be CSCC, HRSR, Goodwood or FIA appendix K. The only stipulation is that they must be Touring Cars (no TVRs please) and pre 1965.

So, apart from your opinions on this initiative, I would be interested to read what car you would race if you had the time and money? Or what cars would form your ideal grid. Note variety is the key to getting an entry so I don’t expect the organisers would want to see a grid full of Mini Coopers or Lotus Cortinas.

[Maisie]

AUSTIN A35!!!!

[TimD]

Some that had touring car racing history, but we never, ever see on the circuits these days...

Borgward Isabella TS
Austin A40 Farina
Austin A90 Westminster
Riley RM saloon
DKW Sonderklasse
Renault 8 S or Gordini
Sunbeam Rapier

I'd have a Sunbeam or a Borgward myself.

[Michael M]

The problem is a financial one. To prepare a standard touring car to average race specification will cost min. 7000 pounds / 20000 marks / 9000 dollars. To make it a winner you have to double or even triple these amounts. If one invests so much money, he has to know for what, and consequently the only target is winning. That's the reason why so much Minis, Cortinas, Lotusses (is this correct?) and Mustangs are around in historic TC racing.

Take Tim's Bordward, even if you put 20.000 pounds in it, it will not be competitive, because the racing parts you need are not available. For a Cortuna you only need a chassis number, all the rest you can buy more or less over the counter. Even if Tim would prepare the Borgward on minimum specs, you need to strip it, put a cage in it, plus some other safety equipment, solex carbs, plus plus plus. Is it worth to invest a large sum of money only to participate in a few races, which you finish 2 or 3 laps behind the leader? And is it worth to destroy a perfectly restored and rare car only for a few events? The only other option is to put it on the track with its standard 75 HP, without safety equipment, with the firm idea in your mind that you are practizing now historic motorsport. In my opinion that's the badest idea at all.

We have a Mercedes 300 SE which is prepared to full 1963 works specification (except the direct fuel injection, are still experimenting), but this car never will see any race track. It is a perfect long distance rallye car, strong, durable, and fast, and that are exactly the events it is entered in. But on a circuit it's a looser, right from the beginning.

I believe the idea of bringing as much as possible makes and types together for this series in first instance looks interesting, but will not work in reality.

[torana]

what about a 1964 Prince Skyline GT now there 's something that's alot different.
2000cc sohc 6 cylinder triple webers standard 12 port head, twin exhaust/split headers 2 spot calipers on front, finned alloy rear drums, 5 speed zf design gerabox,lsd. 99 ltr fuel tank for long distance hammering. 5 x 13 rims 1070 kg
can send web addresses so you can check them out if wanted

[TimD]

A good point, Michael, but I for one would want to take part for the sheer taking part! I would have no interest in taking a car in this class - even a common Mini Cooper, and thrashing it to an inch of its life in an effort to make first place.

The Borgward Isabella idea came to me as there was one which ran frequently in the late 1970s-early 1980s in Britain, and did well against Jaguar 2.4 and MG Magnette entries. It was still road registered (XTA928, if anyone knows where it is) and perfectly tractable on the street. It was also, if the truth be known, a bit scruffy - not a show winner, by any means.

Also, remembering the Borgwards that took part in the BTCC in the early 1960s, the preparation was one of the first jobs given to Bill Blydenstein, the DTV Vauxhall tuning wizard.

I like the idea of a series devoted to variety over professionalism. That's the Goodwood ethos, and that's why last year's event saw an Alfa Romeo 2600 Sprint, Renault Dauphine and BMW 700 Coupe on the grid.

Even the FIA Touring Cars used to have Michael Preising's little Opel Olympia tagging along, always last, always driven with skill, bravery and caution. Sadly, I understand that car was lost in a road-rally accident.

And thinking of Mercedes, isn't there that gorgeous blue 300SE which does the European Historic meetings? Hopelessly slow in its class, it looks beautiful, and sounds like thunder, and is always one of my favourites whenever it comes to a British circuit, even if it's never going to challenge the Mk2 Jags that it competes against.

[Peter Mallett]

Well, its a start, but what about the idea itself?
BTW. I think you could have some fun with an MG 1100. Remember with the twin carb set up it would be as powerful as a Mini Cooper. Also if you got hold of an American spec two door you'd have a rigid shell to play with.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Sounds like it will be a great series Peter. It would be fun to race an EH Holden in Europe, to a chorus of WTF is that? My pick though, would probably be a Mk I Cortina GT. Not an ambitious bloke am I?

[Peter Mallett]

Well David, the point is that there are loads of Cortina's GT or Lotus and there are usually only 30 places (except Spa which can cater for 65!). So a little variety is in order I think.

TimD's Borgward is an interesting one. Ther's a few racing in France and Belgium but none in the UK.

Anything from Oz would of course provide interest.

[TimD]

Beware of bringing a Skyline into Britain, my friends. It may fall into the wrong hands.

Would you believe some nincompoop actually banger raced a perfectly good one last year, which he had imported specially....

Now, thinking of Aussie metal, how about one of those monster old Valiants, the ones that tore around Mount Panorama with skinny tyres under those huge "eyebrow" wheel arches?

That would be fun to see.

As to Borgwards - I just remembered about two months ago, Yahoo! auctions listed a rust-free but dented Isabella 2 door sedan in barn-find condition for $800 US. The only wee small problem was that it was in rural Georgia, USA.

[Peter Mallett]

Michael,

I hope you don't advocate the chassis number scam!!!!

You make some good points but you maybe miss the object of the thing. You can run in classes (as in rallying) and can still be an outright champion without winning a race. You need to keep scoring class points. Anyway, the whole point is that this series brings cars together which race in other championship but get very little chance to race competitively together.

Its a challenge but I wouldn't mind betting that you could build a good useable (reasonably competitve) small capacity car for a lot less than your figures.

I know of a race prepared A35 which was sold as a going concern (complete with roll cage which is mandatory) for around £3000.00. It is racing with the CSCC on a regular basis.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Hey Peter, (Sneddon not Mallet)
A good friend of mine is currently building a Prince Skyline GT to race in Group N, the car is about 90% complete and should be a real weapon at Qld Raceway, Lakeside however will present some real challenges I think. Can you please send me those websites, i might find something that will interest/assist him.

[torana]

I used to raace a skyline down here in Melbourne for over 10 years . the car does present many problems. Still have my car complete and almost ready to go in the shed.Will dig out the web sites and get them to you. My car was featured in the Nissan dealers magazine a few years ago. competed at the 1989 Adelaide AGP, Sandown round of the World Sports Car Chshp., AGP at Calder in about 1986. Also the car was photographed for Aust Sports and Classic a few years ago.
Got it to the stage where I was knocking on the doors of EH holdens at Winton in the late 80's. Long circuits like PI and Sandown were a different matter. Ran out of revs, 6,800 in 5th was not fast enough to saty with them.
Did you get the info that I sent to you WRT the brakes on your Datto?

[torana]

A bit more of the story on my Skyline
Its a genuine S54-BE2 (Triple Weber standard). Completely restored. Started racing the car in 1985.

many highlights , plenty of broken bits.
Highlight finishing 11 th o/Right at Sandown Touring Car race one year. Started 22 on grid in a realy wet race . track was streaming. great start a nd many cars fell of after an EH spun at turn 1. 16th by end of lap 2. could have finished 10 th o/r if i had the goulies to go under the mini at the top of the back straight on the last lap. I had him all set up but figured that behind him was better than hanging the car off the armco. so discretion won out. I'll never know if I could have beaten him.
Embarrasing the next day when had to start from 11 in the dry finished back in the high teen as all the cars with bulk HP passed me like i was standing still. By heck 427 galaxies can shake your car as they go past.

[Binnas]

Hello!
Where can i get some more info about this race. It would be fun too get over too you and let you have a smell of 2-stroke oil from an great Saab 96 1965.
6500rpm and lots of blue smoke from an 3cyl 2-stroke engine is good to here, see and smell..we are having a serie here in sweden starting this summer that is called "1000cc Cup" and there it will participate 8-12 Saab 850cc. this will be a great time when the race´s starts whith all those roaring small engines.

[Peter Mallett]

Afraid you are too late for Silverstone which is this weekend. However you need to fax Julius Thurgood on +44 (0) 1926 885835. Send him details of you and your car and he will send you the necessary info. No website I'm afraid.

Goos luck.

[This message has been edited by Peter Mallett (edited 25 May 2000).]

[Peter Mallett]

I was prompted to post this thread by a magazine article which described the efforts of a racer who purchased a Renault Dauphine.

He has built it into a Renault Gordini Dauphine. Now. I know of one in the UK which is for sale (non-runner) for £50.00. (Buyer collects).

Makes you think doesn't it?

[Binnas]

Ok i contact This man Julius soo i can get some more info.
This idee about the race i great, i have had some idees too.
I have a loot of contacts here i Sweden and have been talking about this kind of races and have had some positiv reaktions around it.
Could there be some intresst to have a serie that runs in one or two countries?????.
for ex one race here in Sweden at a track in southern parts of our countrie. For ex Anderstorp och Ring Knutstorp.
i can give you info about the tracks if you want that.
The race could bee a stand alone race,

[TimD]

Well, I saw the round at Silverstone this weekend, and I liked what I saw.

There were a lot of the usual suspects at the front, with some indecently quick '65 Mustangs and the inevitable Mk2 Jags, but there was some reassuringly mundane machinery playing for the sake of taking part.

Gabriel Konig (remember that name?) belting around in a Farina Austin A40, the same Renault Dauphine which had such fun at the Goodwood Revival last year, a lovely little Riley 1.5 which cornered on its doorhandles, and survived a coming together with a spinning Lotus Cortina with barely a mark, and of all things a 1955 Chevy Sedan!

It only lasted 2 laps, but it sounded fabulous, and took up a huge bit of road.

Add to the mix Gerry Marshall and Jackie Oliver taking two of the Mustangs by the scruff of the neck, and all in all a great race.

My only criticism would be that the compulsory pitstop broke up a fabulous dice between a pair of Mini Coopers, but apart from that, there's not a lot that has to be done to this format.

Quote of the week comes from an incident when an accident damaged Cortina was dissuaded from going the wrong way up pit lane...

Pitlane marshal (to flag marshal): "Not a happy bunny!"

Angry voice from retreating Cortina: "I'll give you *unprintable* happy bunny!"



[This message has been edited by TimD (edited 30 May 2000).]

[Peter Mallett]

Ian Gough. He was leading his class by approx. 20 seconds when he threw it away. He was even less happy at Mallory on Monday when he broke his second gearbox of the day.

[yelwoci]

Ian Gough's well renown preparation team installed an 'unbreakable' £1500 (USD2400) Jack Knight gearbox.....Ian having a reputation for destroying boxes.... it lasted a few laps of practice before he BROKE THE MAINSHAFT!!!!!!!!

Dear Ian,
30 year old race cars need respect, full power gear changes without TAG electronics is foolish! Off the throttle (possible dip clutch) change (double D if necessary) back on throttle. Yes you lose 0.05s per lap but you finish and its CHEAPER!

Luv
IanC

[Maisie]

Dear Ian,

What would you know about finishing races?

(Only kidding - your car's great!)

A Fan xx

[yelwoci]

Maisie


Ouch!!!

<vbg>

I'm getting better......I AM TOO!


Haven't spun in a race for a while!

And I've finished 2 out of 4 races, the DNFD were for two mechanical failures.

AND I'M NOT BEING DEFENSIVE!"!!!!

<VBG>
IanC

[Slowcoach]

I think it's a great idea but what about a category for post '65 cars , say 65-83 , there was a one hour race at BH organised by CSCC a couple of weeks ago - well subscribed and popular with the crowd (the crowd I was with at any rate )
My choice , trying to resist the lure of the Mk11 Jag would be a Consul 375 , big and ponderous but different. The week before on MG raceday was an MG 1100 saloon in amongst all the midgets and 'b's - it came sixth !!!

[This message has been edited by Slowcoach (edited 02 June 2000).]

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome Slowcoach.

You are of course right about the one-hour CSCC races. The next is at Pembrey in august. These races are run for the drivers in all of the CSCC championships except those in Classic Thunder. Glad you enjoyed the Brands Hatch event. For your info one of our members, Yelwoci, is the driver of the RX7 which finished third.

I am familiar with the MG Car Club Phoenix Championship and I think you'll find that the "1100" is in fact a highly modified 1300 which has been campaigned by the (fabulous?) Botelle brothers for the last six years. It actually wouldn't meet any of the regs for the Top Hat or CSCC races because it is so highly modified.

There is a Zephyr 6 which ran with the CSCC over last few years and which I believe may be for sale. I too think that an MG 1100 would make a good entry into the Top Hat series.