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Old 22 Sep 2016, 17:47 (Ref:3674291)   #16
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How much power do modern WRCs put out? The last quattros were hitting 500 bhp.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 18:23 (Ref:3674298)   #17
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
POower is difficult to assess.

I would suggest anywhere between 320 and 260hp. With decent torque. THe 2 litre cars has enormous torque, similar to our rallycross cars as they were restricted.

GpB again is tricky, power figures are banduied about willy nilly. But Quattro was the most powerful, over 520hp. Delta probably 480 odd along with 205, RS200 420 ish and Metro 380.

Toyota Celica Turbo had 350 odd!
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 18:58 (Ref:3674310)   #18
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Good to see the figures in the latest group B rallycross cars where at least 100 bhp more! Not sure why though
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 19:01 (Ref:3674314)   #19
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How much power do modern WRCs put out? The last quattros were hitting 500 bhp.
Modern WRCars officially about 300BHP....But it is thought they put out about 320/330BHP

Of course, next year they get a power hike to about 360-380+BHP....

Which makes no sense really, as the current WRCars are the fastest cars through a stage ever. Why we're getting faster cars is another of the FiA's masterplans.....
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 20:42 (Ref:3674340)   #20
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It does make sense: more power is more difficult to control. It is not all about stage times. The chassis are currently so good the 300-320 bhp power doesn't upset the cars at all. Personally I think it's a shame the the smallest engines you could think of should suffer from a heavy 33 mm restrictor. While on the other hand is loaded with technology you hardly find on fast road cars, like ALS, 14 cm wheel travel, etc. Any normal tuned car won't have these. Technology is actually killing the sport, too good, too expensive, not recognisable. They should bring WRC back to basic: massive power (either 1.6 or 2.0) on a chassis comparable with a good hot hatch.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 21:36 (Ref:3674354)   #21
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
THe power in Group A got very silly at times, it was well known that a GpA Coswrth could easily produce 400hp, and many of them did.

So Delta's, Celica's Mitsubishis, were all likely to be way over 350, probably nearer 400.

theri weigth and tyres were the limit.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 22:11 (Ref:3674358)   #22
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Good to see the figures in the latest group B rallycross cars where at least 100 bhp more! Not sure why though
Rallycross is circuit-based. You're not charging through the forests of Finland. A lot more can go wrong in the WRC.
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Old 22 Sep 2016, 22:22 (Ref:3674360)   #23
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Rallycross is circuit-based. You're not charging through the forests of Finland. A lot more can go wrong in the WRC.


I mean from a technical point of view... They both come out of technical era, but apparently those cars haven't reached their max until late 80's, early 90's...
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Old 23 Sep 2016, 09:50 (Ref:3674488)   #24
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Also a rallycross engine didn't have to survive long - 3 heats and a final - what's that in mileage? 20? 25? A rally engine had to last for a lot longer (especially as the rallies were longer and more spread out).

Group B had excess power - there was more than the cars could usefully use due to limitations in tyres, suspension, drivetrains etc etc. Modern cars have excess grip - the cars run like they're on rails as there isn't enough power to cause the other components to run beyond their limits. The answer is more power or restrictions in the other areas (less grippy tyres, worse shocks, limits on what diffs can do, limits on electronic wizardry etc)
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Old 23 Sep 2016, 12:58 (Ref:3674527)   #25
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Modern WRCars officially about 300BHP....But it is thought they put out about 320/330BHP
The BHP figure is irrelevant really. Torque is the key value for rally cars, and modern engines produce a heap of it. I haven't seen any accurate figures for the 1.6L engines, but some of the late 2.0L WRCars were producing in excess of 450 ft. lbs.

Modern engines produce as much (if not more) torque than the engines of the Group B era and deliver it in a far more controlled fashion. As Bert says, the modern cars are far more compliant as well.

I was pleasantly surprised by the 1.6L WRCars (which I had expected to be gutless) and, as they continue to break stage records, I'm very interested to see how much faster next years cars are going to be.
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Old 23 Sep 2016, 18:55 (Ref:3674578)   #26
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leonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridleonidas should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't think an increase in speed or power will necessarily improve the WRC spectacle. Historic classes go at half the speed and are often twice as exciting to watch.

They need to work on suspension regs - allowing for durability of course but making suspension behaviour closer to that of a good production car. That may also bring down cost.

They also need regs that encourage different shapes of cars - during Group B every model looked different, with outrageous bodykits and styling. Now everything goes through the same windtunnel and is essentially the same shopping trolley with bigger wheelarches. Not so much fun...
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Old 23 Sep 2016, 20:47 (Ref:3674606)   #27
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Having cars with different shapes would be a lot more exciting. With the faster regulation next year I thought they would have longer cars to make them more stable, guessed wrong though. In rallycross too it's getting a little boring with hatchbacks.
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Old 24 Sep 2016, 22:46 (Ref:3674816)   #28
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Just make them all MK2 escorts. Who doesn't love those.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 07:35 (Ref:3674879)   #29
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Just make them all MK2 escorts. Who doesn't love those.

I don't like them, but I am not from that era. But I do understand their appeal. Personally I like their wide wheel arches, but that's all. I also don't see the point of excessive oversteer in about every corner. I don't like E30's and E36's either.
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Old 25 Sep 2016, 11:53 (Ref:3674890)   #30
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I don't think an increase in speed or power will necessarily improve the WRC spectacle. Historic classes go at half the speed and are often twice as exciting to watch.

They need to work on suspension regs - allowing for durability of course but making suspension behaviour closer to that of a good production car. That may also bring down cost.

They also need regs that encourage different shapes of cars - during Group B every model looked different, with outrageous bodykits and styling. Now everything goes through the same windtunnel and is essentially the same shopping trolley with bigger wheelarches. Not so much fun...
I'll be amazed if it does improve the spectacle. Who asked for new regs, with more powerful cars? The current cars are more than fast enough - any faster and the speeds & stage times could be scary....Rallying doesn't need a repeat of GpB or it could be finished.

It's really more of the same; just a slight evolution, when what was needed was a revolution, something completely different from what we've had before.

350-370 BHP, minus the front driveshafts, limit suspension travel, harder tyre compounds, etc Just try something different...for once. Simpler, cheaper cars is what the sport needs.

But it's not just the cars; the events are pretty anaemic; 2 and a bit days and barely 200 miles of stages. That's WRC-lite.....

It's no coincidence that in the last 15-20 years WRC has lost its mojo due to events being almost identikit, very few night stages, lack of competition, etc
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