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Old 23 Sep 2013, 17:34 (Ref:3308256)   #1
Biscuits In A Red Bull
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What cars aren't being raced?

Are there any categories of historic racing cars (or even disused modern ones) that aren't racing right now? Anyone know where to run a Group 2 touring car, for example? Any surviving Formula B cars out there?

I don't know that much about historic racing (being young), but ever since I saw that Formula Junior race at Thruxton last year in my first visit to the CSMA Big Weekend, I'm starting to get hooked, doing loads of research into old cars and drivers. And that got me thinking about this.

In my opinion, racing cars should be raced, and there are people out there (like me) who'd die to race some cars. Are there any categories that are missing out?
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Old 23 Sep 2013, 20:59 (Ref:3308367)   #2
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Turbo F1 cars.
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Old 23 Sep 2013, 22:51 (Ref:3308416)   #3
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Turbo F1 cars.
And early F3000 cars from the same period.

Given there are now races for the sports & saloon cars from that period it shouldn't be long until something happens (there are several people with turbo F1 cars who are looking for a series).

The state of Boss racing these days means you can almost say there is nothing for any post 1980s F1 cars.
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Old 23 Sep 2013, 23:49 (Ref:3308441)   #4
275 GTB-4
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Turbo F1

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Turbo F1 cars.
You meana like-ah dis-ah one? Still-ah circ-que-late-ting...


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Old 24 Sep 2013, 03:22 (Ref:3308530)   #5
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Turbo F1 cars.
In Australia, we have historic Group R for racing cars from 1979 - 1985. On a good day, there will be four F1 cars, two Indycars and a pack of Ralt RT4s & FF2000s.
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Old 24 Sep 2013, 19:57 (Ref:3308884)   #6
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Anything for Group 2 touring cars though?
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Old 25 Sep 2013, 18:59 (Ref:3309313)   #7
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Anything for Group 2 touring cars though?
They are raced in USA and Down Under in appropriate historic events.

In Europe they race in most countries in domestic series. For example in UK there is Motor Racing Legends Touring Car Challenge and Masters 70s Celebration. Both accept Gp2 cars among others.

Next year Peter Auto are proposing a European 4 event series racing at Mugello, Spa, Dijon and Le Castellet. Again, not for Gp2 in isolation.

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Old 25 Sep 2013, 22:56 (Ref:3309395)   #8
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And early F3000 cars from the same period.

Given there are now races for the sports & saloon cars from that period it shouldn't be long until something happens (there are several people with turbo F1 cars who are looking for a series).

The state of Boss racing these days means you can almost say there is nothing for any post 1980s F1 cars.
There is a gap in the Historic calender for those cars. Funny I was chatting to an owner of a F3000 car the other day who wants to race. The only problem with the proper F3000 cars is the cost of the engines; which make them the same running costs as Historic F1. However a series of 4 races perhaps, based in the UK run to original Boss rules I think may work. As long as there aren't any Dutchman dictating the rules; so nothing after 1997 for F1 and 1995 for F3000, and original or as close as possible liverys. (F3000 open to any livery as long as it ran on the make of chassis in period).
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Old 26 Sep 2013, 09:45 (Ref:3309533)   #9
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There is a gap in the Historic calender for those cars. Funny I was chatting to an owner of a F3000 car the other day who wants to race. The only problem with the proper F3000 cars is the cost of the engines; which make them the same running costs as Historic F1. However a series of 4 races perhaps, based in the UK run to original Boss rules I think may work. As long as there aren't any Dutchman dictating the rules; so nothing after 1997 for F1 and 1995 for F3000, and original or as close as possible liverys. (F3000 open to any livery as long as it ran on the make of chassis in period).
I know exactly what you mean about drivers dictating the rules and agree about period liveries - the public want to see the cars they remember.

With F3000 engines, it is true that DFVs are expensive to buy because of their popularity in historic F1, but the running costs are no worse than many other engines (e.g. less than F2 BMWs) and given the engines maintain their value and are very saleable it is just a large lump of money tied up in it.
There are also some alternatives:
DFY is only eligible for a handful of Historic F1 cars so less desirable.
DFR is a bit big (ok for Boss) and less demand for them.
DFX can be converted to normally aspirated and can be picked up in the States cheap.
Judd BV is cheap and might even use the same mountings.

The later engines (Mugen Honda, Cosworth AC etc) also have limited uses and can be found quite cheaply (e.g. I've recently been offered a very cheap rebuilt Mugen MF308).

Apart from those 'proper' engines some cars have had road car V8s (e.g. Audi, Ferrari, BMW etc) fitted and they can be very cheap.

The restoration and running costs of F3000s are lower than F1 because they were built with less exotic materials and in reasonable numbers so spares are available and cheaper to make if you can't find them. Similar to 2 litre F2 cars from that point of view.
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Old 26 Sep 2013, 19:16 (Ref:3309727)   #10
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They are raced in USA and Down Under in appropriate historic events.

In Europe they race in most countries in domestic series. For example in UK there is Motor Racing Legends Touring Car Challenge and Masters 70s Celebration. Both accept Gp2 cars among others.

Next year Peter Auto are proposing a European 4 event series racing at Mugello, Spa, Dijon and Le Castellet. Again, not for Gp2 in isolation.

I thought there might've been a UK one somewhere. Anyone know of the Group 2 grid numbers?

Is that Peter Auto European series going to be for historic touring cars/big 70s stuff then?

As I've said, I'm only starting to get interested in historics...
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Old 27 Sep 2013, 05:45 (Ref:3309897)   #11
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I thought there might've been a UK one somewhere. Anyone know of the Group 2 grid numbers?

Is that Peter Auto European series going to be for historic touring cars/big 70s stuff then?

As I've said, I'm only starting to get interested in historics...

Grid numbers low. Biggest field of Gp2 cars I've seen was at Spa end of May. Peter Auto first attempt at getting them together. 40 car grid contained 20 odd Gp2. In UK usually single figures. Rest of grid was GpA and Pre 66 touring cars. The latter grid was so small it was combined with the other. Getting Gp2 cars not so dificult for PA as the types that raced at Le Mans (RS2600 Capri, CSL for example) already race in another series they run.

MRL and PA both combine 70s Gp2 with early (up tp 1984) GpA. Gp1 in MRL as well. Seems to work. Later GpA get invited to join the Supertourers in UK, and they have 'Youngtimer' in Germany..


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Old 29 Sep 2013, 15:27 (Ref:3310727)   #12
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And now comes the list. Where can I race the following cars (note - several of these are not really historic):

- old Formula Atlantic cars
- an original March 86A Indy Lights car
- a previous-generation FR3.5/GP2 car (outside of hillclimbs)
- an old 80s/90s Formula Renault car
- an SR2/LMP675 class car
- a Formula B class car
- a BTC-Touring car
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Old 29 Sep 2013, 22:32 (Ref:3310849)   #13
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And now comes the list. Where can I race the following cars (note - several of these are not really historic):

- old Formula Atlantic cars
- an original March 86A Indy Lights car
- a previous-generation FR3.5/GP2 car (outside of hillclimbs)
- an old 80s/90s Formula Renault car
- an SR2/LMP675 class car
- a Formula B class car
- a BTC-Touring car
I can answer some of these:

Formula Atlantics run with the F2 cars - e.g. HSCC

March 86A, FR3.5/GP2 in Boss or XL Formula

Is the Formula B a 1960s 15 or 1600cc type car (e.g. American Formula B) in which case you have HSCC Classic single seaters

Don't know about the sports racers or Formula Renault

BTC presumably in the new super touring series or is it from a different period?
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Old 30 Sep 2013, 05:25 (Ref:3310912)   #14
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HSCC Super Touring Car Trophy regs here

Basically for cars up to year 2000...

1970s Gp2 and later GpA cars are also eligible, but IMHO fit better in the other series mentioned previously.
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Old 30 Sep 2013, 05:40 (Ref:3310917)   #15
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Formula Renault can run in Monoposto
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