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Old 1 Jan 2021, 22:21 (Ref:4026373)   #1851
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Originally Posted by Pandamasque View Post
Not patronising. I just called out someone on spreading falsehoods.

Contrary to what you're suggesting, it's a lot more than zero. And that's just in the relatively recent past. You claimed "never".
Sorry, I meant Championships and just a tiny handful of odd races, but didn’t word it well.

Certainly in the current era, especially the current rules.
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Old 1 Jan 2021, 23:30 (Ref:4026379)   #1852
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Not patronising. I just called out someone on spreading falsehoods.
This is a falsehood. Not being patronizing must be new concept to you.

You don’t have to put down another user to put across the alternative view or provide some information. You’ll get your being right on the internet points whatever.

That is all. Just discuss.
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 02:22 (Ref:4026514)   #1853
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And still the question remains, who made the first proposal to whom. All the argy bargy about Mercedes/Whitmarsh/Brawn does not answer the question but is relevant, did it trigger the move to Honda or did Honda knowing what was happening approach McLaren. As I pointed out the project had to be in R&D for some years so surely it preceded the Mercedes/McLaren divorce. That divorce had to be a multi year thing though so perhaps not.
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 16:09 (Ref:4026586)   #1854
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Ok.

Don’t know. Heard various ideas from sporting fair play to more, er, pecuniary reasons and everything in between.

Has to rank as one of the worst decisions in F1 history (from his own team’s point of view). Should have let them have the Cosworth.

I was intrigued by this Whitmarsh veto, so I did some Googling and the only thing I could find was his denial in vetoing the decision to let Red Bull use the Mercedes engine prior to the 2011 season. However, regarding Brawn GP's use of the Mercedes engine, I came across this paragraph in this article from Racefans.net, in which it quotes from Nick Fry's book, 'Survive. Drive. Win'.

https://www.racefans.net/2019/10/04/...-data-in-2009/

''With no Honda engines available, Brawn had joined McLaren in using Mercedes power, which Fry acknowledged was partly thanks to Dennis. “[He] had been instrumental in agreeing to let us use Mercedes engines. He had agreed to it and had waived his veto even though, as the main customer, McLaren had the right to stop Mercedes linking up with anyone else.”

So it would appear Whitmarsh had nothing to do with waiving the veto, though as head of the Formula One Teams Association, he offered to facilitate the deal between Mercedes Benz and Brawn GP.

I think it’s clear enough that my utterly false claim, wasn't that utterly false!
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 16:48 (Ref:4026589)   #1855
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Lol, unless Whitmarsh agreed for McLaren. Which he did!

It wasn’t a personal contractual right, but a corporate one of course.

Maybe Dennis feels he should have fought to have stopped it but was persuaded, I don’t know.

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Old 3 Jan 2021, 17:02 (Ref:4026591)   #1856
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From grandprix247.com:

“Whitmarsh does have a bigger role to play in the McLaren saga though. After Honda withdrew they agreed to sell their whole team to Ross Brawn, by then Team Principal for a nominal fee, such was the respect Honda had for him, creating Brawn GP. But they had no engine! Brawn, being well known and respected around the Paddock for many years, was desperate for an Engine, any Engine!

Whitmarsh, who by now was also head of the Formula One Teams Association offered to facilitate a deal between Mercedes Benz and Brawn GP and a deal was duly signed a few weeks later. No one, except perhaps some at Honda/Brawn GP knew what was about to happen and the car had to be redesigned to accept the new MB Engine.“
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 19:48 (Ref:4026599)   #1857
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This whole period for Mclaren from Alonso/Ham, to spygate, size zero and engine dealings, to Ron exit, return, and subsequent exit, Mclaren civil war...plus more Alonso is fascinating.

Would love to read a comprehensive and detailed telling of this saga.
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 19:56 (Ref:4026600)   #1858
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You’re right and I suspect a lot has already been lost in time. From top-of-the-tree to uncompetitive near-pariahs in just a few years!
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Old 3 Jan 2021, 22:26 (Ref:4026614)   #1859
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Lol, unless Whitmarsh agreed for McLaren. Which he did!

It wasn’t a personal contractual right, but a corporate one of course.

Maybe Dennis feels he should have fought to have stopped it but was persuaded, I don’t know.

Though Martin Whitmarsh had become Team Principle, Ron Dennis was still CEO and it would have been his decision to waive the veto, as Nick Fry says in his book and let Brawn GP use the Mercedes engine.

I read the grandprix247.com article; very interesting.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/07...g-for-mclaren/

It would also be interesting to know why Ron Dennis waived the veto.
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Old 4 Jan 2021, 00:41 (Ref:4026630)   #1860
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It would also be interesting to know why Ron Dennis waived the veto.

I'm sure that one day Ron will publish a book and we will all find out his side of the story. You can be sure he will have extensive notes to refer too.


Would suggest that he gets a ghost writer because if it's just publishing Ronspeak no one will buy it.


Meanwhile back on topic "Can McLaren compete" the coming season looks good for WCC points. Mercedes Power unit, lessons learned on packaging, and an exciting driver pairing who would seem more likely to feed off each other than to set out competing to the disadvantage of the team.
They should also be pretty good PR for the Mclaren brand.
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Old 4 Jan 2021, 10:00 (Ref:4026671)   #1861
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I'm sure that one day Ron will publish a book and we will all find out his side of the story. You can be sure he will have extensive notes to refer too.


Would suggest that he gets a ghost writer because if it's just publishing Ronspeak no one will buy it.


Meanwhile back on topic "Can McLaren compete" the coming season looks good for WCC points. Mercedes Power unit, lessons learned on packaging, and an exciting driver pairing who would seem more likely to feed off each other than to set out competing to the disadvantage of the team.
They should also be pretty good PR for the Mclaren brand.
Don't we wish that is all true, almost for the good of the whole damn sport...
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 01:50 (Ref:4031593)   #1862
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It is now a McLaren Mercedes again.

Brum brum https://twitter.com/mclarenf1/status...139481091?s=21

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...powered-f1-car
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 04:05 (Ref:4031603)   #1863
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Smooth!

High hopes for this season!
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 06:57 (Ref:4031614)   #1864
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I would like to see Danny beat Max, or Checo for that matter, a couple of times this year. I am not asking for much, let that happen and I will be smiling in my coma watching Lewis win race after race.
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 10:06 (Ref:4031647)   #1865
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High hopes with that Merc engine. I expect them to be up with the Aston Martins at worst this year
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 11:27 (Ref:4031654)   #1866
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I would like to see Danny beat Max, or Checo for that matter, a couple of times this year. I am not asking for much, let that happen and I will be smiling in my coma watching Lewis win race after race.
I'd like to see Danny and Lando do just that..... Don't write Lando off just yet.
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 12:14 (Ref:4031662)   #1867
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Whatever happens those two are bound to have a few good laughs along the way
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Old 29 Jan 2021, 19:03 (Ref:4031907)   #1868
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High hopes with that Merc engine. I expect them to be up with the Aston Martins at worst this year
I should think they'll be doing a fair bit better than that?
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Old 29 Jan 2021, 20:10 (Ref:4031922)   #1869
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I should think they'll be doing a fair bit better than that?
Not disagreeing but just wondering why you think that. After all the AM will effectively be the 2020 Merc with upgrades.
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 05:39 (Ref:4031967)   #1870
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Not disagreeing but just wondering why you think that. After all the AM will effectively be the 2020 Merc with upgrades.
Given the way that McLaren have made good chassis one might hope that a '21 power unit from Mercedes would push them ahead of a green coloured '20 Mercedes. It is probably all in the packaging, hopefully not too many compromises with a new power unit.
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 10:18 (Ref:4031990)   #1871
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It'll certainly be interesting to find out....
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 10:38 (Ref:4031994)   #1872
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McLaren say their car will be relatively new despite the restrictions on new car design
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Old 30 Jan 2021, 11:22 (Ref:4032015)   #1873
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Not disagreeing but just wondering why you think that. After all the AM will effectively be the 2020 Merc with upgrades.
James Key!!
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 19:42 (Ref:4046950)   #1874
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McLaren sells F1 factory in ?170 million leaseback.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...-back/6365400/
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Old 20 Apr 2021, 20:34 (Ref:4046961)   #1875
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McLaren sells F1 factory in ?170 million leaseback.

That's not normally good news.
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