TC

[The Eye]

There is a very interesting discussion on a Norwegian forum www.motorsportavisen.no / Debatt forum / EM Rallycross Finland.
What it comes down to is that someone / some? Of The Championship D1 drivers possibly unauthorized use of Traction Control. O 133 posts over 8700 views in just a few days show that this is a "hot potato". Many of the comments are of course, completely uninteresting, but if JKR is right ABOUT FIA know of cheats but does not have the necessary knowledge / equipment / or lack regular means to prove this. Well then it's a *****! Do you know anything about this??

[WJM]

Cheaters are always ahead of the commisioners. They had to legalize Traction Control in F1 because it was simply impossible to police. Only since the standard ECU's it was banned again. If they couldn't spot it in F1, than how can you expect the Rallycross commisioners to find it??

When it rains it's always interesting to look at starts. Certain cars always manage to launch without wheelspin...

[StockHatch782]

That Norwegian thread makes interesting reading, especially as Isachsen is on there defending himself. There was a word I couldn't translate, which I got as 'gossiping'; does this mean 'chattering' and does it refer to the turbo or something else? They seem to be saying that Sverre's car doesn't do this so much, but I might have got hte wrong end of the Norwegian stick.

[chunder]

The thing about this all is why would TC be any kind of help in rallycross? The issue being that youa re running 4wd and TC has never really been used much in 4wd cars?

Even in WRC traction control is not really much in evidence as far as I gather.

Maybe the fact you have to use controlled diffs instead of active ones meane TC is around? But in all honesty it's hardly the worst thing to happen. MOst engine managements systesm at the top level ahve TC progrrams installed in them, so very hard to police.

As far as I remember in the Group B days, even in those days cars had to wheelspin hugely off the line. And yo ahve to remember they were all running largely slick tyres so some spin was always likely. and mst cars had over 600hp. It was also a way of protecting the diffs and gearbox! If you put Rasmushaugen power through a diff and box it would always likely yo break! SO some slip was I am sure a good thing!

For me, the tyres have more grip, the electronics are more advanced. Look on board Isachsen and he always flicks switches on and off at the start. COUld that be something? He always gates like a demon.

Not sure really, I hope it isnt around, but wouldnt be surprised. I think more likely Div1A though as they were fitted with it in rallying!

[1975DCS]

You must be confusing traction control with launch control? Ron Snoeck tested his new Seat without launch control, but will switch to that later. I think they first want to optimise grip as much as possible without the electronics, so that the electronics will have to do as little as possible.

I think launch control is widely used in Division 1, it is a delicate mix of boostpressure, ALS, rpm, torque, power and mechanical grip to get off the line as quick as possible, especially with 4wd and turbolag which could halt the car! A good launch control will make the best start, without wheelspin, which in turn saves the tyres...

Maybe a Div 1 driver could tell us something? Mad Mark maybe?

[Doran Jnr]

Traction Control would have a HUGE effect on a cars speed/times!

[WJM]

Originally Posted by StockHatch782

That Norwegian thread makes interesting reading, especially as Isachsen is on there defending himself. There was a word I couldn't translate, which I got as 'gossiping'; does this mean 'chattering' and does it refer to the turbo or something else? They seem to be saying that Sverre's car doesn't do this so much, but I might have got hte wrong end of the Norwegian stick.

I don't exactly understand it either but I think what they mean here is that a car with traction control makes a different engine noise. Because TC cuts the power to the wheels, the car sounds like it's misfiring.

[WJM]

Originally Posted by chunder

For me, the tyres have more grip, the electronics are more advanced. Look on board Isachsen and he always flicks switches on and off at the start. COUld that be something? He always gates like a demon.

The tyres definately do not have more grip nowadays. Remember they have to use threaded, pre-moulded tyres and can only use 4 per raceweekend.

Not sure really, I hope it isnt around, but wouldnt be surprised. I think more likely Div1A though as they were fitted with it in rallying!

Well, they captured Bossard last year at Holjes. He couldn't beat the Clios then but he sure is powerful in France.

[The Eye]

Interesting replies on that Norwegian forum.
Freddie wrote:
“xxxxx have pre-programmed the crankshaft and how fast the engine should be able to accelerate in a given offer without spinning the wheels. When the crankshaft begins to accelerate faster than the pre-programmed speed device it immediately intervene, and cuts the ignition until the crankshaft speed is within the limits that are programmed. You have great opportunities to adjust the traction controller to your needs. Sensitivity can be adjusted by what gear you are in, and by how much gas you give. You can also adjust the sensitivity while driving with Traction Control Adjust. With this you can also turn of the TC system completely. Retrieved from a TC-race supplier ...”
Even Hvaal wrote:
“Freddie you are spot on I think, and if you follow Div 1 you can see very easily who is using it. All the cars have Pectel electronics and are mapped by Julian Godfrey.
If I should tip, based on what you see in driving style how the cars are on the track then it is 4 Ford's and 1 Volvo.”

Who besides Sverre and Frode uses Godfrey engines?

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by The Eye

Interesting replies on that Norwegian forum.
Freddie wrote:
“xxxxx have pre-programmed the crankshaft and how fast the engine should be able to accelerate in a given offer without spinning the wheels. When the crankshaft begins to accelerate faster than the pre-programmed speed device it immediately intervene, and cuts the ignition until the crankshaft speed is within the limits that are programmed. You have great opportunities to adjust the traction controller to your needs. Sensitivity can be adjusted by what gear you are in, and by how much gas you give. You can also adjust the sensitivity while driving with Traction Control Adjust. With this you can also turn of the TC system completely. Retrieved from a TC-race supplier ...”
Even Hvaal wrote:
“Freddie you are spot on I think, and if you follow Div 1 you can see very easily who is using it. All the cars have Pectel electronics and are mapped by Julian Godfrey.
If I should tip, based on what you see in driving style how the cars are on the track then it is 4 Ford's and 1 Volvo.”

Who besides Sverre and Frode uses Godfrey engines?

I think it actually could be legal as normal TC is monitoring wheel speed like ABS, right? I am sure there is nothing (legal) to say about a clever programmed Pectel management?

Still amazing to see, how Isachsen's car seem to have the edge over other Godfrey equiped cars... So Kuypers, Valle and Pauwels could have the same system? So it is the battle between Trollspeed, Godfrey and Oreca that have the biggest share in Top 10 Division 1 cars?

[schanche]

Possibly more talk of T.C after this weekend?
Just thought I would add this to the thread!
Schanche's take on TC

When traction control first became a threat in Rallycross two decades ago,
Martin Schanche railed against it in typical style: "Yes, I have traction control – it’s the connection between here [pointing at his right foot] and here [pointing at his head]."
priceless!!!!!!!