Who's In Charge?

[Mark Mitchell]

At one of my local Circuits, some of the Incident Officers, in their morning briefings have been heard to start with "....and I'm in charge of what goes on here....."
I don't hear this anywhere else, so was wondering if it was something that had been brought up locally in training.
I'm quite prepared to let IO's run the post, providing that they are also willing to write up any reports and accept any critism that may come their way.
As far as I see it.....my IO on post is responsible for co-ordinating his/her team at an incident or accident and for the safe execution of this - and that should be their speciality.This is the "Avenue" they have chosen to take. Observing is (In my book) just another marshalling disciplne and I'm happy let the incident boys & girls play with crashed cars/bikes. However, the Observer is ultimately in "Charge" of the post and the buck stops with him/her.

[Bob Pearson]

I would like to think someone is going to clarify this. I don't find the idea of groups of marshals at any one post without a clearly defined leader very confidence inspiring.

[neil_davidson2]

You are in overall "charge" of the post/sector, Observer.

The IO should "manage" the ES team including the assessment of the team, initial deployment and also co-ordination of their activity under incident situations.

As always I think the whole running of the post should be a team effort between all the disciplines, but as you rightly day - the buck stops with the Observer.

Other than the wording of the briefing have you actually found the IO trying to perform the Observer's role? Personally I find I have enough on my hands without trying to write things down too!

[Cynic]

I know what Observer means. I've come across it mainly at Silverstone, and to a lesser degree Donington. The I/O effectively runs the post in terms of managing the marshals, whilst the observer literally does just that. I'm not particularly fond of it as the usual "few that give everyone else a bad name" do sometimes use this arrangement as an excuse for getting a bit too big for their boots, but horses for courses I suppose.

[Mark Mitchell]

I hasten to add that it's a small minority of IO's - so I'll not tarnish them all with the same brush. Some do see it as a status thing though - as indeed do some observers!

[Cynic]

I hasten to add that it's a small minority of IO's

I never intended to suggest it was all of them, so apologies to anyone who does take it that way.

[Stephen Green]

This is a very interesting topic, especially as I was an IO before becoming an Observer a couple of years ago.

An Incident Officer is there to manage the Course/Fire marshals during and after an incident. His/her task is to get the incident cleared and the circuit ready for racing in the quickest time but with optimum safety. The task also means close co-operation with the Observer on post who is in overall control.

When I first became an Incident Officer I met with much opposition as the then Observers saw me as diminishing their responsibility and to a degeree undermining their authority.

With some good co-operation, a team spirit and the willingness to work with each other as a TEAM, I think all should be satisfied.

Ultimately the Observer has authority over the IO and if he (the Observer) feels the IO is not foing the job correctly, then it is up to him to say so.

I have a pet hate for the 'I'm in charge' brigade preferring to make my team feel welcome, whatever their grade or experience.

[EvilPumpkin]

Just a note - in Ireland we don't have observers and the IO is totally in charge of the post. Seems to work for us.

At the end of the day, as long as someone is making sure the marshalling end of things is properly organised and it's agreed beforehand who that is going to be, then that should be all that's necessary I would have thought?

[Stephen Green]

So in effect your IO's are Observers?

[JimW]

With some good co-operation, a team spirit and the willingness to work with each other as a TEAM, I think all should be satisfied.

Ultimately the Observer has authority over the IO and if he (the Observer) feels the IO is not doing the job correctly, then it is up to him to say so.

I'm with Stephen on this one. So I only observe at circuits where it works like that (and ones where they don't use IOs).

(And I don't observe at circuits with television either).

Regards

Jim

[EvilPumpkin]

No we don't observe driving standards at all - although we may occasionally report serious breaches such as very dangerous driving or overtaking under yellows.

If the organising club want driving standards observers, they provide their own.

[Stephen Green]

The Incident Officer has the advantage over the Observer in being mobile (at those circuits where the Observer is stuck in the hut not being able to leave the telephone in case race control call) and is able to be at the scene of the accident and to help co-ordinate the clear up. His duty is purely to deal with the clear up and then to liaise with his Observer with regard to what is needed in order to get the track back to race safety as quickly as possible. It is still the Observer who calls for medical help, a race stop, safety car and in most cases informs race control of what he requires in the form of recovery vehicles. It would also be the Observer who in conjunction with race control would call for snatch vehicles.

[Stephen Green]

The Observer is also responsible for all written reports and would be the official called to attend judicial hearings in the case of appeals over decisions made by race control.

[EvilPumpkin]

Ok well the IO in our case would cover that - (s)he communicates with race control, gives details of incident, requests whatever backup is required and if there's any paperwork needed, would fill it out.

But our IOs are also trackside marshals. IO will attend the incident and get info first hand and where applicable, will assist with any action that needs to be taken.

[Stephen Green]

Understood EP but I think you also have the benefit of radios which make your IO's mobile unlike many of the UK circuits?

Like you, we have driving standards officers as well but they do not normally stand on post with marshals, but are positioned at various places on the track to report back to race control.

[sss]

i very rarely do briefings, in fact i cant remember the last one i gave to be honest

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
The Incident Officer has the advantage over the Observer in being mobile (at those circuits where the Observer is stuck in the hut

I really prefer to work at circuits where the Obs is given a radio (Anglesey, Croft, Donny sometimes and even a couple of posts at Oulton) simply because I am not tied to a hut!
I sometimes do feel that I'm not as big a part of the team as I would like, simply because I am "Detached" from the other guys as I have to stay put in my hut/box etc!

[Stephen Green]

Yes I know the feeling...devil and deep blue sea come to mind

[EvilPumpkin]

Yes - although being able to tie the odd one to a hut is an attractive thought.....

Course, then they'd have to give us huts........

[Mark Mitchell]

An IO need not really get his or hands dirty! They should be able to "Co-ordinate" the incident response in a manner which enables him/her to "Stand Back" from the actual incident and evaluate procedings. He/she is then also an extra pair of eyes to warn of any additional impending danger.

[EvilPumpkin]

Nice in theory observer - doesn't work too well when you have a post that consists of an IO, a course marshal and a flagger.

That's why the flaggers watch our backs.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
Nice in theory observer - doesn't work too well when you have a post that consists of an IO, a course marshal and a flagger.

Quite! I was wearing those spectacles again.....those with the rose tinted lens!

[EvilPumpkin]

LOL - well as long as they're shatterproof dear - you don't want the nasty gravel cracking them!

[sss]

being tied up in a hut sounds like fun, but straps are better than rope as they dont chaff as much

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally posted by observer
I sometimes do feel that I'm not as big a part of the team as I would like, simply because I am "Detached" from the other guys as I have to stay put in my hut/box etc!

One of my pet hates as a flagger was that the Observers never came over to you (Mainly Oulton where many flag points are some way from the obs box).
Quite often, if flagging alone, you could spend the whole day without speaking to anyone.
I now make the effort not to go down that same road, and if there's two observers on a post, then there's no excuse not to get out and chat with the crew!