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16 Sep 2009, 13:19 (Ref:2541975) | #26 | ||
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There's 4 SBC motors in the DP class right now, 3 badged as Chevys, only the Gainsco car is still running "Pontiac" livery. Pageneud has been reported multiple times by Miller as well as the usual cadre of sportscar sites. |
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16 Sep 2009, 16:32 (Ref:2542152) | #27 | ||
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I've never been a huge fan of Grand-Am, but the one part of the blog I agree with is that the ALMS class system is confusing to fans. Over the years I taken a number of friends to ALMS events who were just casual race fans. It is very difficult to get them to understand (insert 20 minute explanation to friend) why the P1 and P2s aren't "really" racing each other, etc... Adding new classes will just add to the confusion.
If Grand-Am really goes under, I wonder how tied ALMS will be to the newly announced class structure? I bet they would be able to poach at least some of the Grand-Am teams to come-up with a decent grid. |
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16 Sep 2009, 16:35 (Ref:2542158) | #28 | |||
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Address the content of the post itself, don't attack the person who posted it... Adhere to the rule or you will face consequences... Mod hat off... Now Back to the Subject at Hand... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
16 Sep 2009, 16:54 (Ref:2542176) | #29 | ||
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16 Sep 2009, 16:56 (Ref:2542180) | #30 | ||
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16 Sep 2009, 18:01 (Ref:2542244) | #31 | ||
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Wolverines! |
16 Sep 2009, 18:04 (Ref:2542249) | #32 | |||
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As I read the whole thread, I do believe that some others were getting close to the line as well, so I'll state this for all participating in this thread: Address the post itself and do not attack the poster...be civil about this or I'll close the thread. We should all be adults about this and discuss this in an intelligent manner...period. |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
16 Sep 2009, 18:37 (Ref:2542272) | #33 | |
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Sportscar fans are passionate about the ALMS, Grand Am is just another series that wouldn't be missed.
Obviously Grand Am works for some teams, probably because of their connections with NASCAR. Teams that make an impact in the ALMS will go down in sportscar history like the Gulf 917's or NPTI Nissans, Grand Am runners will be lost in the mix. That's pretty sad for Grand Am teams as much of the attraction of sportscar racing is the history and legacy manufactuer's and teams can create in the sport. |
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16 Sep 2009, 18:51 (Ref:2542289) | #34 | ||
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I honestly think the ALMS has some things it can learn from Grand Am.
Longer races appealing to gentleman drivers would help budget wise. Cars that are perhaps a touch lower spec and, dare I say it, not quite as challenging to drive or maintain, could be a model for how something akin to LMP2 might work. What seems more or less guaranteed to not work is engaging in a fratricidal war of words. A positive message and a sport that seems on top of its issues and focuses mainly on delivering a good product is one that will attract marketing budgets; senior executives spending time taking idle pot shots at the other series won't. When the two series resort to seeing the other as the real enemy, and make quite barbed comments, as Jim Hunter does in his blog post, reminds me of nothing so much as Jose Luis Borges' comment about the Falklands, that it was basically a case of two bald men fighting over a comb. If anything this sort of spat is what should be seen as ill advised and counter productive. Last edited by isynge; 16 Sep 2009 at 18:52. Reason: corrected grammar |
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16 Sep 2009, 19:04 (Ref:2542296) | #35 | |||
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L.P. Last edited by HORNDAWG; 16 Sep 2009 at 19:34. |
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
16 Sep 2009, 19:23 (Ref:2542313) | #36 | ||
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If the LMPC class cars are convertible to 2011 P2 rules, then the ALMS may have done something smart here! They may be bringing new teams into the series, and providing them a platform to stay. If the chassis can take more than one engine in the future, I could see more teams picking up on the deal now. This is something that the ALMS should be mentioning to any teams who show interest in the LMPC class - especially to GA teams who are used to have a choice of engine to put in their Riley.
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16 Sep 2009, 19:44 (Ref:2542335) | #37 | ||
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I don't really think the ALMS has much to learn from Grand-Am in terms of race durations. GA has six 250mi/2:45 races, one 250mi/2:30 race, one 250mi/2:20 race, two 200mi/2:00 races, a six-hour race, and a 24-hour race. ALMS has five 2:45 races, one 1:55 race, one 1:40 race, one four-hour race, one 1000mi/10:00 race, and a 12-hour race. And honestly, you quickly get into a game of diminishing returns on street circuits, as the benefits of longer races for gentlemen drivers become outweighed by higher risks of binning the car.
I don't understand what's so hard about explaining multiple classes in understandable terms. I'm more than half blind, but can still visually tell the differences between an LMP and LMP2 or a GT1 and a GT2. With GTs, it's just intuitive that when two cars weigh similar amounts, the one that is visibly more aerodynamically tuned and that has 35% more power will be decidedly faster. Between LMP classes. the LMP1s at least look bigger, and have decidedly larger engines. By the numbers, the LMP1s are just 6% heavier, but have 36% more power. It seems clear which one should be going for overall honors. |
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16 Sep 2009, 19:55 (Ref:2542356) | #38 | ||
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I have a big problem with this statement. While I think we could all agree that Dyson has had their problems this year and never really got on a par with Penske in regards to competing in the RS Spyder, calling them a joke is really way off base. Dyson certainly don't need me to be an apologist for them as they are the kind of guys that don't look for excuses and wouldn't want anyone to make excuses for them. These are the kind of guys that keep sportscar racing going in the lean years. They are the kinds of guys that put out their own money (with some sponsorship of course) to compete. I don't want to go into a diatribe on their history and, in fact, I certainly don't know it all. Sufice it to say, my first memory of them is racing Firebirds in the middle 80s in the GTO Division of IMSA and then they went out and bought themselves a Porsche 962 during the 1985 season. They won their first race (Lime Rock I believe) against many more famous teams with higher budgets. In fact, they were in the top 5 in their first 5 races and were always a top flight competitor in the IMSA days starting in 1985 and beyond with at least a few wins each year. They were on board with ALMS early on and have been a great competitor. To be soundly beaten by Audi and Penski is no embarrassment considering the differences in budget. My guess is, they will get things righted with the Lola-Mazda and compete as they always have and give a great accounting of themselves in the near future.
My apologies for putting this in this thread, but I didn't think calling "Dyson a joke of a team" should be unchallenged as I noticed a few others have also commented above. I just wanted to throw in a few facts regarding their stellar racing record. DK |
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16 Sep 2009, 20:06 (Ref:2542361) | #39 | |||
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The IMSA for all the crap I give them, have factory battles that will be remembered. |
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16 Sep 2009, 21:13 (Ref:2542409) | #40 | |||
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i must say that i have tried to support the GA for what it was in the beginning, but i just don't see how the series can go any further with or without competition from the ALMS. i believe the concept was great but it was executed with complete and utter stupidy.
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they have always been a "David vs Goliath" kind of team and I have been a big supporter since I first saw the team in the R&S at my 1st PLM. can't really diss a team for going hard two years as the only challenge to Audi in a way too tightly wound up MG/Lola that usually ended up in retiring spectacularly trying keep up with big money, BIG MONEY. |
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16 Sep 2009, 22:18 (Ref:2542450) | #41 | ||
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as far as a challenge class goes- how hard is it to hire a driver, and test each entry at a track and base the cars off the lap times and adjust accordingly.
Speed GT does pretty well with vastly differnt machinery. so what gives with ALMS or GA struggling for full grids and balanced competition. is the answer too easy to get a balance to easy. and dyson history speaks volumes, they are a truly stellar and upstart privateer team doing battle with much mightier (financially) teams |
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SuperTrucks rule- end of story. Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET I am shameless ... |
17 Sep 2009, 00:32 (Ref:2542503) | #42 | |||
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Oh Yeah!
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17 Sep 2009, 02:23 (Ref:2542546) | #43 | ||
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I'll acknowledge that the engine situation may not be quite as bad as it looks, but without those manufacturers footing the bills for TV and a heck of a lot of other stuff, Grand-Am will definitely be in trouble without their money.
And yes, a toast to Dyson is very much in order. They did very well in the Porsche 962 days, and after what happened with Holbert, became the Porsche flagbearers in the old IMSA. Also, despite the fragility of the Lola/MGs, Dyson managed five victories against the factory Audis in 2003-05 (the first coming at Sears Point in 2003). GTTouring, at least on the ALMS side of things, there are some complications with the Challenge class. There is not a fully developed GT3 class over here; it's mainly just the Porsches. Also, the Speed GT cars aren't necessarily built as close to production as what we see in GT2 (though I don't think they're tube framers). Certainly the Viper Competition Coupe wasn't close enough to be ACO-homologated. In addition, the Primetime Viper, which is a Speed GT car, is still ~100lb heavy, and was at least 200lb heavy when they started (though it may have been as much as 400lb to start with). |
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17 Sep 2009, 12:07 (Ref:2542754) | #44 | ||
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Autosport shilling GA in this week's Autosport
I've just read the article where they are testing the various Grand-Am cars (the differences are negligable between those prototurds btw) and it reads more as a highly biased advert for Grand-Am.
It also includes a blatently false piece of information; 'Acura is leaving the ALMS'; WRONG Fernandez Racing is leaving the ALMS with their P2 Acura. De Ferran Motorsports is expanding to two P1 cars in the ALMS and Highcrift are staying put with their Acura P1 as well |
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
17 Sep 2009, 12:12 (Ref:2542761) | #45 | ||
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As a matter of interest, and really just before I get home to read it myself - what's the byline on the Autosport Grand Am article?
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17 Sep 2009, 12:19 (Ref:2542765) | #46 | |||
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
17 Sep 2009, 12:31 (Ref:2542773) | #47 | ||
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
17 Sep 2009, 12:35 (Ref:2542777) | #48 | ||
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AFAIK the DeFerran two car idea is a "in a perfect world"-thing. As I understand it, their focus is on an Indycar-campaign, but they want to do ALMS as well, if possible.
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17 Sep 2009, 13:41 (Ref:2542812) | #49 | ||
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I am aware that Acura are withdrawing works support, but there has been no announcement of the P1 cars themselves going away.
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"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit.' And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." -Ayrton Senna |
17 Sep 2009, 14:11 (Ref:2542822) | #50 | ||
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Yes, a nice piece of Grand Am propaganda. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an all expenses paid trip...
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Taki Inoue, the only driver in F1 history who's been driven into by a course car, twice! |
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