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Old 16 Oct 2020, 11:19 (Ref:4010982)   #46
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Not sure Lewis has number 1 status written into his contract, but there's a reason Bottas is in that seat and not Max Verstappen.
Yes, Red Bull signed him!

And why chase him for millions when you already have Hamilton?

This is all why it is rare to have the top two talents in one team.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 11:50 (Ref:4010987)   #47
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Yes, Red Bull signed him!

And why chase him for millions when you already have Hamilton?

This is all why it is rare to have the top two talents in one team.
Why have the 2 best drivers when you already have 1? Even more points? Even more domination? Even more 1-2s? An absolutely guaranteed 1-2 in the championship? Having a real backup driver who'll win the race when your main one won't? Hard to say Bottas ticks these boxes.

The reason they don't want two top talents is the Lewis Rosberg situation. Simply, it's harder to manage. The pure results were absolutely better than the Lewis Bottas pairing. But my god it was a lot of stress and drama for Mercedes.

Same with things like Senna and Prost. The actual results McLaren got when they were team mates were amazing, and much better than after Prost left. But the reality was it was an impossibly hard situation to manage.

Why is Bottas in that seat? Because he won't beat Lewis. Why is Bottas getting 1 year contract extensions? Because when he doesn't finish second in the championship, it's easier to drop him for a number 2.

Note: None of this is a criticism of Lewis.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 15:05 (Ref:4011027)   #48
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In 2007 if McLaren had either Hamilton or Alonso plus a number 2 they would've won the WDC. OK Stepney giving them photocopies of Ferrari IP might've meant the FIA would've found a more creative punishment to stop them.
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 15:19 (Ref:4011033)   #49
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In 2007 if McLaren had either Hamilton or Alonso plus a number 2 they would've won the WDC. OK Stepney giving them photocopies of Ferrari IP might've meant the FIA would've found a more creative punishment to stop them.
I believe that when McLaren signed Hamilton alongside Alonso this may have been the original plan
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 16:46 (Ref:4011040)   #50
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Ferrari let Massa and Raikkonen race that same season, until the final three races when the team got behind Kimi
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Old 16 Oct 2020, 17:14 (Ref:4011042)   #51
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Why have the 2 best drivers when you already have 1? Even more points? Even more domination? Even more 1-2s? An absolutely guaranteed 1-2 in the championship? Having a real backup driver who'll win the race when your main one won't? Hard to say Bottas ticks these boxes.

The reason they don't want two top talents is the Lewis Rosberg situation. Simply, it's harder to manage. The pure results were absolutely better than the Lewis Bottas pairing. But my god it was a lot of stress and drama for Mercedes.

Same with things like Senna and Prost. The actual results McLaren got when they were team mates were amazing, and much better than after Prost left. But the reality was it was an impossibly hard situation to manage.

Why is Bottas in that seat? Because he won't beat Lewis. Why is Bottas getting 1 year contract extensions? Because when he doesn't finish second in the championship, it's easier to drop him for a number 2.

Note: None of this is a criticism of Lewis.
I get the easier to manage. Obviously.

I just think it works the other way round in most cases.

Itís less ďWe donít want the top two drivers because of the aggroĒ and more ďitís hard and expensive to get the top two drivers and itís not worth the extra aggroĒ

The worth of the second of the top two drivers is less to you than it is to another team that doesnít have either!

Mercedes didnít shy away from having a Rosberg who could challenge and 1/3 seasons beat Hamilton. But they didnít go out for that either when they were in a dominant position. It certainly wasnít top draw money to achieve. They didnít again. They arenít prepared, because itís not worth the cost, to chase a Verstappen contract.

McLaren in the 1980s? Well a different more naive era perhaps. And one, because there were perceived to be more top level drivers (Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell) where the situation was more likely to find a couple of top draw drivers in one team - supply and demand!
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 01:49 (Ref:4011094)   #52
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The real point being that Mercedes have enjoyed such a car advantage since 2014 that they don't need any of the strategy advantages offered by two top line drivers to win races and championships.

So you are dead right why bother chasing another top line driver to fill the second seat and bring all the drama of having someone compete with Lewis.

Mercedes have also built a dynasty around Lewis and his name in the record books forever associated with Mercedes is marketing gold, and all a competitive driver would do is devalue this.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 03:25 (Ref:4011098)   #53
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it would have been really helpful to this debate if Rosberg didnt retire.

But if Nico stayed after winning, im not entirely sure Merc would have favoured LH outright in 2017. They would have probably been destroyed by the press and fan base had they done so.

Would it be fair to say LH caught a massive break with Nico's retirement?

*Should have put that in the goat thread.
I recall the year prior to Rosberg winning he was interviewed and saying that he knew how to beat Hamilton. I assume after he had done it he was under no illusion that to do it again was going to be next to impossible and the effort he had to put in was unrepeatable. I am not getting into the who was the best driver and who got screwed by circumstance that is just the way it all came across. Rosberg simply saw Hamilton as such a formidable competitor he was not prepared to try it again.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 04:47 (Ref:4011105)   #54
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I would have a similar, but slightly different slant on that.

Rosberg put everything he had into winning that. And he did it. Previous years he had his moments, more poles, batches of races where he was stronger, but that year it took everything. Man he was knackered. He’d done it. He knew where he was, his achievement and what else’s was happening in his life. He knew he wasn’t prepared to do it again.

A super quick guy and knows where he’s at. Top man.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 07:23 (Ref:4011111)   #55
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Indeed. He knew that he couldn't beat Lewis on speed, so had to make the most of every opportunity he was given. He did just that, but as you say, it took that bit extra to make it happen and wasn't prepared to do it again
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 13:32 (Ref:4011145)   #56
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Rosberg had Lewis focusing inwards and could really rattle him in a way that Bottas can't keep up across multiple weekends nor seems to want to (presumably as he is content sitting behind Lewis in such a mighty car). Since Rosberg has retired, Hamilton has reached a level in his driving that even Sebastian Vettel in a generally superior car could not overcome him in 2018. As chillibowl mentioned elsewhere, Rosberg's retirement was a blessing to Hamilton. But the methods Rosberg used to outdo Hamilton as a teammate were very different to Button, who always looked to be Hamilton's equal in status and more often than not in ability too.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 13:44 (Ref:4011146)   #57
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Rosberg’s tricks? He number one trick was that he could be faster! He needed to be 100% on his game, but a lot of those poles and wins demonstrated that.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 15:36 (Ref:4011157)   #58
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I think as ever it was a mix of things. Both these things are true

1) Rosberg had everything going his way in 2016, it was the perfect storm
2) Rosberg absolutely deserved his championship

If you look back to 2016 Hamilton was destabilised by losing his engineers and mechanics to Rosberg giving him a slow start, he had a couple of retirements at critical points, most notably Sepang having clawed his way back into the championship fight at least twice having had bad reliability, Rosberg was just flat out quicker on the Saturday giving him an advantage going into a Sunday.

Rosberg has openly said several times that he had to put his entire life on hold to beat Hamilton that year and he couldnít do it again, there are some very candid and enlightening interviews on YouTube.
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Old 17 Oct 2020, 16:52 (Ref:4011167)   #59
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Rosberg really made the most of his opportunity, taking advantage of every little slip Hamilton, even if he did make those silly moves in Austria and Germany on Lewis and Max respectively.

Also to add Lewisí woes above, he also fluffed quite a few of his starts that season
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Old Yesterday, 09:57 (Ref:4011627)   #60
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I don't understand some of the opinions on here.

What advantage did Ferrari have in 2018?

ascarracinguk and I have already had exchanges over Rosberg, and has passed. The problem is while his posts acknowledge Rosberg as a deserved title winner, often the rest of the post comes across to me as though underneath he wants to let rip and diminish his title. But that could be how it comes across to me.

Rosberg improved from 2015 and was legit the best MB in 16. If you marry up his actions and what's occurred, he just doesn't have the desire to win multiple titles or become a deified figure. He wanted to win a championship and that's it.

He signed a two year deal prior to winning the championship. Had he missed out on 16, he'd have carried on to try and win 17. So whether anyone likes it or not, he was eventually going to win the cship. Him retiring straight after winning is no different to other champions who've lost steam after being satisfied and having different interests.

I agree with wnut's opinion of MB alignment with Hamilton's career and legacy.
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