The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

There are a number of initiatives for post Brexit, including Free Ports if they can get the bureaucracy right. When it comes to overall spend if, as I hope/suspect, taxes are reduced there could well be an influx of businesses which in turn will improve the coffers. The old adage, "speculate to accumulate", comes to mind.

That said, does anyone really think that BoJo can be a worse manager than May? For all his (many) faults, he was a breath of fresh air to London as Mayor and that experience must count for something. Garden bridges or not.

Ro be honest Peter I'm not at all political and think that they're all a bunch of self-serving wasters (no my first choice of word). However, BoJo is the man who is supposed to be doing it so I feel that everyone needs to support him and hope/ensure that he gets the best possible outcome for us as soon as possible. Only time will tell if this has happened or not.

[Peter Mallett]

I agree with your first point. As to the second, he's our only hope of a sensible outcome.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I agree with your first point. As to the second, he's our only hope of a sensible outcome.

Sadly you may have a point Peter.

To paraphrase the old Blues song, "If it wasn't for Bad Hope we wouldn't have no Hope at all."

That the Tory party was unable to find a better prospect than Johnson in the modern era must tell us something.

That the Labour party seems to be an an equally bad place in terms of "Leadership" - probably even much worse - also sends a message.

One almost wonders whether there might be a half decent reason for simply staying in the EU for its bureaucratic strength given the paucity of political talent the UK. After all it's not as if any of the major policies the political élites are chasing are very different between UK and EU and no one in the UK seems to be coming forward with alternative ideas of any substance or credibility.

The economics of Europe seem to be in a poor place at the moment with not much sign of near term improvement and several signs of short term serious issues. Whether being inside or outside (or more likely attached anyway things work out) that bubble would be the best option is unknown and likely to remain that way.

Of course either way requires the presumption that someone will appear in the political sphere with some nous about how to make the best of whichever situation we end up with. If they exist they are keeping their identity very quiet at the moment.

[Mike Bell]

So, it’s been suggested in the media that we’re currently in the same position with brexit as 2 years ago.... What a surprise!

Just realised I’ll be in Portugal at the end of October, so with any luck I won’t be let back into the UK- and will have to stay on the Algarve.......

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

So, it’s been suggested in the media that we’re currently in the same position with brexit as 2 years ago.... What a surprise!

It's ok - Jason Plato has the facts on twitter.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

So, it’s been suggested in the media that we’re currently in the same position with brexit as 2 years ago.... What a surprise!

Just realised I’ll be in Portugal at the end of October, so with any luck I won’t be let back into the UK- and will have to stay on the Algarve.......

Not too late to apply for the Irish passport. Lot's of Bells in Ireland, you must be related to one or two!!.

[VIVA GT]

I saw an interesting piece on BBC Breakfast this morning which involved an interview with 'Britain's largest fruit & vegetable wholesaler' at the Birmingham Fruit and Veg market (or, as I remember it, the support pits for the Birmingham Superprix!).
The BBC appeared to be going along the lines of 'we will all be doomed if we have a no-deal Brexit as a huge percentage of our fruit & veg (and other foodstuffs) is imported blah, blah.
He was quite calm about it all and doesn't see it being a problem for a couple of reasons. Firstly he explained that the stuff will be coming in refrigerated lorries, so they are already making plans to use different ports to avoid the delays at Calais, adding '4 hours or so to the travelling time in the grand scheme of things is not really an issue' he said. Plus, he feels sure that as the goods are perishable, the overseas producers will put pressure onto their own governments to do a proper deal with the UK so that the trading can continue so that their produce doesn't go to waste.
Quite refreshing really instead of all the usual doom & gloom.

[Mike Bell]

Yup, life will go on.....

Oh, and can you find out what route the fridge trucks will be using so delta doesn’t have to suffer being parked next to one overnight in a service area.....

[bauble]

I caught about half of an interview on BBC this morning with an ex Trade Minister who spoke he most sense about Brexit that I have heard, he was not in the least worried about the supposed calamity of a 'no deal'. I hope I can find it on catch-up as I would like to hear the whole thing again. He pointed out the Germany sells 1,000,000 cars in the UK every year, and reckoned bosses at Mercedes and BMW must be wondering what to do with their cars if we do not have a deal.

It was heartening to hear common sense on the Beeb instead of the constant drip-drip of 'could' 'might' 'potentially' 'possibly' 'maybe' scenarios that could, might, potentially, maybe lead to disaster and ruin.

Also on local TV a Tory councillor said he voted to leave, not necessarily because of the EU as it is, but what it might (that word again) be in 10 years time. I quite see his point of view.

[coppice]

But much of the narrative, after three years of achieving two parts of b**r all, is that 'it won't be as bad as we thought, we can bumble along eating mutton and turnips before we strike a trade deal with umm..err .. The Solomon Islands .' Great , cue dancing in the street.



All that , to appease the Mail and Express readers who want their blue passports back and Vera Lynn back at number one in the charts. Well , at least they have the prospect of gunboats in the Straights of Hormuz to remind the poor dears of the Good Old Days ...

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

But much of the narrative, after three years of achieving two parts of b**r all, is that 'it won't be as bad as we thought, we can bumble along eating mutton and turnips before we strike a trade deal with umm..err .. The Solomon Islands .' Great , cue dancing in the street.



All that , to appease the Mail and Express readers who want their blue passports back and Vera Lynn back at number one in the charts. Well , at least they have the prospect of gunboats in the Straights of Hormuz to remind the poor dears of the Good Old Days ...

Let me guess! You voted to remain!

[VIVA GT]

At the time of the referendum, in my ignorance I voted to remain (let's face it, there was very little proper information about at the time to convince non-political people like me what was the best option). I accepted that my decision was not the same as the majority of voters, and so took it on board that we would be leaving.
Since that time, and throughout the frustration of continued delays caused by dilly-dallying by those involved, I have become increasingly reassured (mostly by comments on here, somewhere I feel I can trust there to be honesty) that leaving is not going to be the disaster I originally expected.
I just want them to no knuckle down and work on things to ensure the best possible conditions and deals for us to start our new lives on November 1st.

[Peter Mallett]

It's not a question of blue passports or White Cliffs of Dover and Blue Birds. The referendum under English Law was legitimate and it followed a general election where the main issue was holding said referendum. This was in response to the (failed) efforts of the government to limit EU immigration.

In order to leave the EU Article 50 had to be enacted and it was by Parliament (including the remain element).

So, in my opinion the basis of the narrative is flawed in that immigration is not and has never been the main driver. It was the realization, for many, that the EU controls our lives. It does not permit any deviation from its rules.

The problem is therefore not the vote, it's the lying and cheating of the remain camp who voted for Art 50 then did everything they could to stop it. And they are still trying. I note that John McDonnel is threatening a coup if there is a no deal exit.

As to trade deals with Solomon Islands or whatever, we do still have the Commonwealth countries; there is the USA that is looking favourable and of course we are free to improve deals with Japan and other countries.

I can't understand the pessimism. Likewise had we voted to stay I wouldn't be calling the remain camp a bunch of Mirror reading lefties with no education. Because it patently is not true.

Ultimately a sensible interesting discussion can be had without calling each other names. It really isn't the end of the world or the UK, although it appears the Labour party would willingly split the UK up.

[bauble]

I admire your optimism Peter, and Viv, however, I have carried out extensive research on the subject of Brexit and now fully understand the consequences if we do leave on the 31st of October;

Firstly on the 1st November the rest of the World will instantly place an embargo on all trade, or movement between peoples on the entire UK. An exclusion zone will be enforced on the seas around the country, meaning that we will have no jurisdiction on any of the waters that surround the UK, only French and Spanish fisherman will be allowed to enter the zone until at least all of the fish stocks have been plundered.
North Korea will be invited to use the British Isles as a testing ground for their nuclear weapons programme, and President Trump will declare that Britons are rapists and thieves, and will promise to build a wall to keep us all in. Any UK citizens living abroad will be declared stateless, and spend the rest of their lives wandering from place to place, before being banned to the Arctic Tundra.

Foreign citizens and illegal immigrants will receive priority treatment in the UK, and Sidique Khan will establish a Caliphate in London, and introduce Sharia law.

Due to having no access to medicines plague, and famine will cause desolation amongst the population.

Finally the country will sink beneath the waves with the Liberal party leading the 'Remainers' in a chorus of 'I Told You So', as they drown in their own hypocrisy.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Bauble aka Jonah the Prophet.

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by bauble

President Trump will declare that Britons are rapists and thieves, and will promise to build a wall to keep us all in.
Bauble aka Jonah the Prophet.

So you mean this "gentleman" will follow Romans Hadrien and Antonin. Let me guess if orgies become up to date again, many will vote remain and others will come quickly!
Gerry Mo'

[The Fat Clerk]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It really isn't the end of the world or the UK, although it appears the Labour party would willingly split the UK up.

Now that's a whole new kettle of poissons. The Scots want to have a vote to leave, why cant we as the English be asked if we want them to stay in the UK?
The same for the Welsh & the Northern Irish

Only teasing but it's a good talking point.

Like most people in the UK my background is mixed. My surname is French as 3 generations ago were all my paternal relatives. Vive La Republic as they say.

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed, I'm English but three generations ago my maternal family were Scottish. My paternal family were a combination of French and Jewish.

[midgetman]

Apparently my lineage has been traced back to Wat Tyler, the somewhat ineffectual leader of the equally ineffectual Peasant's Revolt. And Tylers have been revolting ever since.

But poor jokes aside, I am worried about the way we are leaving. The original plan was great, but it has been so cocked up by the May Administration that I fear we will be better off staying.

I've read all the "of course there will be some collateral damage but it's all for the greater good" comments here and elsewhere, but the damage will be felt by traders, farmers and small businesses who don't have the reserves to ride it out. Tell them it's the greater good when their sales fall and the mortgage isn't paid. Ten Tenths is a broadly well-heeled demographic, most here won't be affected financially. However the extra work Simon, Iain and other teams will incur will be a cost. Either they have to get someone else in to do the paperwork at a charge or do it themselves, taking their eyes of their core businesses.

I don't think leaving the EU will affect hobby racers beyond a bit of paperwork and more expensive petrol, but businesses will be disadvantaged. The big ones will be fine, they re-allocate staff but the likes of me don't have anyone else to do it.

I listened to the Five Live programme from northern Ireland the other morning and it was sobering. Project Fear or not, this should have been fully thought out BEFORE the referendum so we had a chance to vote on an informed basis. I tend to agree with M. Barnier, a special place in hell should be reserved for the leaders who touted Brexit without a shred of a plan. I feel very let down by the whole process. This wasn't democracy, this was a shouting contest. No one had or even has any idea what to do next.

I feel very deflated. We have been let down. It's a total disaster. Really, staying in can't be any worse.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by bauble

I admire your optimism Peter, and Viv, however, I have carried out extensive research on the subject of Brexit and now fully understand the consequences if we do leave on the 31st of October;

Firstly on the 1st November the rest of the World will instantly place an embargo on all trade, or movement between peoples on the entire UK. An exclusion zone will be enforced on the seas around the country, meaning that we will have no jurisdiction on any of the waters that surround the UK, only French and Spanish fisherman will be allowed to enter the zone until at least all of the fish stocks have been plundered.
North Korea will be invited to use the British Isles as a testing ground for their nuclear weapons programme, and President Trump will declare that Britons are rapists and thieves, and will promise to build a wall to keep us all in. Any UK citizens living abroad will be declared stateless, and spend the rest of their lives wandering from place to place, before being banned to the Arctic Tundra.

Foreign citizens and illegal immigrants will receive priority treatment in the UK, and Sidique Khan will establish a Caliphate in London, and introduce Sharia law.

Due to having no access to medicines plague, and famine will cause desolation amongst the population.

Finally the country will sink beneath the waves with the Liberal party leading the 'Remainers' in a chorus of 'I Told You So', as they drown in their own hypocrisy.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Bauble aka Jonah the Prophet.

Your problem Bob is that you believe everything the BBC tells you

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Your problem Bob is that you believe everything the BBC tells you

And why would I not? The BBC is an impeccable source of honest, unbiased, and well researched news. Their reporting is fair and even handed, and is never aimed at pursuing any particular political agenda, or meant to sway anyone's judgement either for or against any matter of national importance.

Of course I believe every thing they say …………… Ooh! hang on the last bus to Mars is just leaving and I must get home for the news.

[coppice]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Indeed, I'm English but three generations ago my maternal family were Scottish. My paternal family were a combination of French and Jewish.

I have never felt English despite being Yorkshire born and bred . Dad was a Scot , my mum was Australian, with Irish roots. I am British , but comfortably part of Europe and I don't just regret what I feel is the insular insanity of Brexit but also the almost inevitable split of the union in the future .



Other views are available- I long ago gave up on arguing as if my interlocutors might be converted . I won't , they won't and the whole sorry saga is a bloody tragedy.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

I have never felt English despite being Yorkshire born and bred . Dad was a Scot , my mum was Australian, with Irish roots. I am British , but comfortably part of Europe and I don't just regret what I feel is the insular insanity of Brexit but also the almost inevitable split of the union in the future .



Other views are available- I long ago gave up on arguing as if my interlocutors might be converted . I won't , they won't and the whole sorry saga is a bloody tragedy.

Coppice, our views re diametrically opposed, I am ENGLISH, never European, I believe in the strength and ability of this country to survive under almost any circumstance. Maybe growing up at a time when Germany wanted to kill me, and my fathers had to rescue Europe from Nazi domination, has coloured my views, and no doubt must suffer being described as Jingoistic. Even so I simply believe we are better off under our own steam, I fear a bigger EU Government over which I have virtually no control, such organisations always think they no best, just as our own parliament has over the democratic decision of the majority in the referendum.

Whether the decision to leave is right or wrong, the will of the people should be paramount. If it proves to be wrong then another referendum could.
.should be held to determine what people want to do about it. BUT democracy requires implementation of the referendum result, anything less is anarchy.

I firmly believe we are all friends on this forum, and any discussion should be governed by that preposition.

We might disagree, but should never fall out.

Kind regards,
Bob

[grantp]

Originally Posted by coppice

I have never felt English despite being Yorkshire born and bred . Dad was a Scot , my mum was Australian, with Irish roots. I am British , but comfortably part of Europe and I don't just regret what I feel is the insular insanity of Brexit but also the almost inevitable split of the union in the future .



Other views are available- I long ago gave up on arguing as if my interlocutors might be converted . I won't , they won't and the whole sorry saga is a bloody tragedy.

With tongue firmly rammed into cheek ....

Typical bloody immigrant (country of residence and country of origin not important). Never assimilate - or at least to do so takes several generations and some significant changes away from whatever they might originally have been expected to assimilate to.

As for the United States of Europe .... if that really existed today there should be no need for so many separate "States" to have a say in how things should be run through the format of cooperation that currently exists.

The USA's approach seems to be far from perfect and horribly bureaucratic in many ways but politically seems to have a better potential for continuity (in so far as continuity of political groupings can be estimated) than does the EU.

However, if the world's economic activity and economic 'balance', such as it is, starts to crumble any allegiances are likely to have a limited life.

[coppice]

When did I say I was an immigrant? I'm a proud Yorkshireman , me , and I'll see you outside if you suggest otherwise . Must dash , whippet to walk .

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

When did I say I was an immigrant? I'm a proud Yorkshireman , me , and I'll see you outside if you suggest otherwise . Must dash , whippet to walk .

Don't forget to take the ferret out of your trousers first.