[LM24 Race] 2018 Le Mans 24 Hours Race Thread

[Irie]

Originally Posted by tux

Gdrive #26 LMP2 winners are excluded for an illegal refuelling restrictior.

#28 TDS Oreca also excluded from third place for the same reason

It's the same team after all

[Damian Baldi]

I hate to read that a team was cheating again, we will end with a rule as in IMSA with minimum refuel time that makes races worst.

[chernaudi]

Since LMP2s use the same fuel and engine, shouldn't the refueling rig restirctor be a spec component?

[TF110]

Ii wonder how you cheat that if it is a spec component.

[GingerPixel]

Apparently the spec rig featured an additional "machined part".

SURELY the teams would have been well aware that attaching stuff to the setup was going to get them into hot water?

[Damian Baldi]

From DSC

Per a stewards decision issued late Monday, both of the LMP2 cars, which had finished first and fourth in class, were found to have had a non-compliant part in the fuel restrictor that allegedly created a significantly faster fuel flow.

According to a report issued by the FIA, a non-homologated “additional machined part” was inserted into the flow restrictor that extended to the dead man valve, which changed the dimensions of the cone in the restrictor.

[Akrapovic]

There are certain modifications you can do to the fuel rigs in LMP2, but it's basically a list of stuff that's allowed. LMP2 Tech Regs state:

What is not expressly permitted by the present regulations is prohibited

The specifically machined part wasn't listed in the regulations, so is illegal. So even if they managed to argue that it fits the drawing and the technical regs, it isn't an approved part anyway. It's either illegal through 2 regulations, or 1 regulation. Either way, they aren't getting around that one.

I'm actually gutted as I was really happy to see G-Drive win. A Le Mans victory is the only one they don't have yet.

Edit: 7 second quicker refueling time. They did, what? 37 or so stops? 260ish seconds. 4.3 minutes over 24 hours. Ouch.

[fieldodreams79]

this one keeps getting better and better!!

[chernaudi]

Only other alternative is to penalize them the time they gained though refueling, and some other punitive penalty. Probably simpler to DQ them than try and do that math.

Not to mention that, unlike drive time or not completing the last lap within a certain time, there's no provision for a time penalty post race for such an infraction.

[Simmi]

Can just see Rusinov marching into the appeal with three promo girls and three lawyers.

[rich07]

David Heinemeier Hansons Twitter makes for some entertaining reading lol

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Average of each LMP1 drivers top 40 laps.

Wow. Thanks

[outnumbered]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

Apparently the spec rig featured an additional "machined part".

SURELY the teams would have been well aware that attaching stuff to the setup was going to get them into hot water?

You'd have thought so!

Maybe they're been using it for a while, but it was less noticeable under the old pit stop rules where fuel and tyres were not simultaneous. Anyone got historic stats for P2 stops?

[Damian Baldi]

Fast laps on the race of each driver (not included practices or qualy)

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/Res..._Hour%2024.PDF

[Articus]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

no 8 straight to museum I guess complete with dirt

Originally Posted by Spyderman

For those that think the BoP was off

FORD
Car # Average Lap time (Laps under 3:55) Best
66 03:52.6 03:50.3
67 03:52.6 03:50.2
68 03:52.3 03:50.1
69 03:52.8 03:50.2


PORSCHE
Car # Average Lap time (Laps under 3:55) Best
91 03:52.3 03:50.2
92 03:52.5 03:50.4
93 03:52.8 03:50.5
94 03:53.0 03:51.2

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

What about Ferrari, Corvette and Aston Martin?

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I'll have do do some more number crunching , but I can tell you that the fastest lap in GTE-Pro was set by Corvette.

I've done a similar analysis but I upped the laptime cutoff to 4:00 minute. What I see is remarkable. I get to that in the end.

51 Ferrari: 3:53.5 (253 lap avg)
52 Ferrari: 3:53.6 (257 lap avg)
71 Ferrari: 3:54.2 (250 lap avg)

63 Corvette: 3:53.4 (261 lap avg)
64 Corvette: N/A

66 Ford: 3:53.2 (258 lap avg)
67 Ford: 3:53.2 (259 lap avg)
68 Ford: 3:52.9 (265 lap avg)
69 Ford: 3:53.4 (232 lap avg)

81 BMW: 3:53.1 (242 lap avg)
82 BMW: 3:53.2 (180 lap avg) - crashed out

91 Porsche: 3:52.9 (270 lap avg)
92 Porsche: 3:53.1 (271 lap avg)
93 Porsche: 3:53.2 (258 lap avg)
94 Porsche: 3:53.8 (68 lap avg)) - retired broken frame

What you see is that while Porsche were quick, so was Ford. You can also see that BMW sandbagged point blank.. There is no difference in pace between the BMW, Porsche, and Ford when you look at the average lap time over the race. None of the manufacturers have even complained about the BOP. They complained about the safety car procedure. I don't know what Bourdais was on about.

While a best lap time or seeing that the Porsche led the whole race on your TV or timing screen may give some people in this forum the illusion that the BOP was not correct, the racing positions and who finished ahead in a trouble free race (without Safety car disruption) is governed by the average laptime. Whatever is gained in the quick laps, has to be lost to the competitors in the slow laps over 24 hours. With the exception of the Astons and the 94 Porsche, the field was covered by 1/2 a second! The averages show that if not for the mechanical issues for BMW, Stop and hold penalties for every Ferrari, the 2:00 minute gap created by the safety car, the slow zone interference, all of these cars would have finished within the same minute and a half depending on just how clean the pitstops were.
L'est we forget that Bourdais was actually racing the Rothman's car at the end. The Rothmans car is where the 92 Porsche would have finished had they not benefitted from the safety car.

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by tux

Gdrive #26 LMP2 winners are excluded for an illegal refuelling restrictior.

#28 TDS Oreca also excluded from third place for the same reason

It wouldn't be a real ACO or WEC race without an exclusion or two…

[deggis]

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

It wouldn't be a real ACO or WEC race without an exclusion or two…

Yep I believe rebellion was excluded from lmp2 last year for modifying a homlegated aero component.they cut a hole in the engine cover when their starter went out to tap it on instead of spending hours to replace it.then they proceeded to try to cover it with tape.

[ederss7]

Toyota fans, simply ignore some people saying "but there was no competition and etc" and celebrate a well deserved victory.
But don't use the argument saying "Audi also didn't have competition" because Audi never had such a big advantage as Toyota had this year. That's a fact.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Indeed, Audi had a far bigger advantage most years.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Articus

I've done a similar analysis but I upped the laptime cutoff to 4:00 minute. What I see is remarkable. I get to that in the end.

51 Ferrari: 3:53.5 (253 lap avg)
52 Ferrari: 3:53.6 (257 lap avg)
71 Ferrari: 3:54.2 (250 lap avg)

63 Corvette: 3:53.4 (261 lap avg)
64 Corvette: N/A

66 Ford: 3:53.2 (258 lap avg)
67 Ford: 3:53.2 (259 lap avg)
68 Ford: 3:52.9 (265 lap avg)
69 Ford: 3:53.4 (232 lap avg)

81 BMW: 3:53.1 (242 lap avg)
82 BMW: 3:53.2 (180 lap avg) - crashed out

91 Porsche: 3:52.9 (270 lap avg)
92 Porsche: 3:53.1 (271 lap avg)
93 Porsche: 3:53.2 (258 lap avg)
94 Porsche: 3:53.8 (68 lap avg)) - retired broken frame

What you see is that while Porsche were quick, so was Ford. You can also see that BMW sandbagged point blank.. There is no difference in pace between the BMW, Porsche, and Ford when you look at the average lap time over the race. None of the manufacturers have even complained about the BOP. They complained about the safety car procedure. I don't know what Bourdais was on about.

While a best lap time or seeing that the Porsche led the whole race on your TV or timing screen may give some people in this forum the illusion that the BOP was not correct, the racing positions and who finished ahead in a trouble free race (without Safety car disruption) is governed by the average laptime. Whatever is gained in the quick laps, has to be lost to the competitors in the slow laps over 24 hours. With the exception of the Astons and the 94 Porsche, the field was covered by 1/2 a second! The averages show that if not for the mechanical issues for BMW, Stop and hold penalties for every Ferrari, the 2:00 minute gap created by the safety car, the slow zone interference, all of these cars would have finished within the same minute and a half depending on just how clean the pitstops were.
L'est we forget that Bourdais was actually racing the Rothman's car at the end. The Rothmans car is where the 92 Porsche would have finished had they not benefitted from the safety car.

+1

Perhaps a "modification" to BoP for GTE-Pro could be as follows:
As this BoP is now quite accurate (with some minor adjustments needed in some cases), it could serve as the "fixed" BoP for next year. Only new cars/engines etc would need to be BoP'ed. All further development on the existing homolgated cars would not be BoP'ed. That would allow each manufacturer to develop their cars without being subjected to a new BoP that effectively annuls any development, and they would all start from a level playing field.
Of course this would mean that there would be more of a gap between cars, but at least it would once again showcase engineering prowess and eliminate some of the politics and sandbagging.

Unfortunately this will not happen, but for some of us it would make living with BoP a lot easier and would re-awaken our interest in GTE-Pro

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by tux

Gdrive #26 LMP2 winners are excluded for an illegal refuelling restrictior.

#28 TDS Oreca also excluded from third place for the same reason

These Stewards decisions don't appear to be officially published.

Any ideas where they are?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by GregUK

These Stewards decisions don't appear to be officially published.

Any ideas where they are?

They should be on the notice board section of the live timing site, but there's nothing beyond decision 68 yet; 69-72 according to the result sheet elsewhere on the site concern the driving time penalties. Post-race stuff is generally late in appearing.

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They should be on the notice board section of the live timing site, but there's nothing beyond decision 68 yet; 69-72 according to the result sheet elsewhere on the site concern the driving time penalties. Post-race stuff is generally late in appearing.

Yes - the official notice board is here:

http://fiawec.alkamelsystems.com/noticeBoard.html

No published decision - but it seems that a press release has gone out.

[Peter Mallett]

There are some interesting decisions there. Michelin got hit with a 200k Euro fine (suspended) for not supplying the necessary quantity of tyres. They also got hit for 5k for not declaring the tyres in due time. Second offence.