Northern Saloons and Sportscars

[skeggy]

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

Evening Mr Skeggs, has benson and hedges made any plans yet for next year? I know Rich was on about going to RWD.

To be fair, I hate the journey to snett but I have an uncle who lives in Norwich so my digs are all sorted!

Just been looking at the blue book myself, think my cage wouldn't pass the NSSCC regs, it looks like you need 2 door bars where mine only has one, could someone confirm this?

Plans for this year are in the planning/maybe/if stage.

I know the road to Snett quite well so I'll have a think and try to suggest a good route.

[big andy]

central driving postion s are not allowed under msa rules and havnt been for at least 25years it was to stop people putting bodys on formula cars and running them in special saloons .it want be allowed in nsscc or any other formula for that matter if i were u dan i would turn it back to right hand drive .

[JeffC]

well looks he is now

and on that note can I grab your Mig welder Mr Gibson Sir

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

That was £52 inc VAT for the pair with all brackets on, I didn't think it was too bad to be honest.

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

Yes, but he's not doing it, so probs quite safe!

[skeggy]

Originally Posted by Westysprinter

that's just the point, anything shouldn't go in class A. its a silhouete formula and that cough Lotus cough is approx 150mm longer in the wheel base and body, how the feck does that work

Rule bending goes on in all forms of motorsport. The originator (is that a real word?) of your car was famous for it!

But my view is that if people want to bend the rules to win at all costs then let them or protest them.*

Likewise with people that throw cash at it just to walk off into the distance, not having a race with anyone, just winning. I can't see the point myself but each to his/her own.

Years ago I ran a Lola F5000 in Libre races, we turned up with our trailer, caravan and the car. One guy turns up with a huge American motorhome, artic and a team of mechanic - they even changed DFVs between quaily and the race!

* When I first got involved with helping Mark and Rich I read somewhere that the NSSCC was a very friendly paddock, I found it to be that - the p**s taking is just part of the fun!
So I hope that there is never a need for someone to protest another competitor.

[big andy]

Originally Posted by Westysprinter

that's just the point, anything shouldn't go in class A. its a silhouete formula and that cough Lotus cough is approx 150mm longer in the wheel base and body, how the feck does that work

to be honest it dosnt work if a car is not within the rules then it really shouldnt be racing .in 2005 i was refused a entry at cadwell park in class A2 because my air filter broke the bonnet line by 150mm not the 100mm allowed
whats good for the goose

[Peter Dixon]

Originally Posted by JeffC

well looks he is now

and on that note can I grab your Mig welder Mr Gibson Sir

That'll do.

[roadboy]

Originally Posted by big andy

central driving postion s are not allowed under msa rules and havnt been for at least 25years it was to stop people putting bodys on formula cars and running them in special saloons .it want be allowed in nsscc or any other formula for that matter if i were u dan i would turn it back to right hand drive .

Andy, Lotus Motorsport built an entire race series around centrally seated "Motorsport Elise" race cars in the late 90s that supported the touring cars. Many of these cars still run all over the country in many different MSA sanctioned series and championship.

How is this possible if what you say is true? Do you have a source of this MSA rule that bans central driving positions?

At the end of the day this is a fully road legal, taxed, tested car. Not some crazy "Silhouette Special".

It is not a special car in any way and I'm sure there are people in the NSSCC (even in Classes B-D) that have spent more on their engines than I have on the entire build, including buying the car!

We'll see anyway.

Dan

[simon.g]

Originally Posted by JeffC

well looks he is now

and on that note can I grab your Mig welder Mr Gibson Sir

will drop it round tomora lunch time when i finish

[JeffC]

good man let me know when u on way will crack the kettle on

Originally Posted by sgeecars

will drop it round tomora lunch time when i finish

[Marlou]

Hi i don't do this a lot but my advice would be to give Peter Elliott the championship scrutineer a ring he will be able to help with the roll cage door bars and why a Lotus Elise with a seat on the centre line of the car is not a sports car as the Definition in the MSA Blue book

[andy robinson]

Rex Stamp's elise in the eurosaloons is centre seat

[big andy]

if the cars were built that way it aint a problem but you can not convert a right/left hand drive car to central driving postion.davie brewies tryed entering a mini with central postion two years ago the answer was no

[roadboy]

Rex Stamp's car that runs in Eurosaloons was a RHD car that was converted to central driving position.

It appears the MSA haven't banned his car.

Is it in the blue book that central driving positions are banned in Saloon & Sports Car racing Andy?

Dan

[the youth]

Presume the new side impact regs still allow bolt in side protection bars?
As to meet the new regs the easiest (and cheapest way!) will be for me to bolt on another Safety devices universal door bar horizontally below the existing door bar exactly like is shown in drawing (G)

can't believe the MSA BB shows no door bars (drawing F) and then two (G and H) why has one gone ? surely one is better than non!!

with regards, to the other changes the new 1.6 MM min tyre tread has a grey area as it doesn't say on how much of the tread width as by law on the public highway the legal limit for minimum depth of the tread on your tyres is 1.6 millimetres, across the central ¾ of the tread around the complete circumference of the tyre.
and we all know track tyres can wear the inner section or very outer depending on camber/ driving style etc, so a completely safe legal tyre on the road is illegal to race on, what happens at the end of a race will our tyres be checked in case we have scrubbed the edges off??

At this rate I won't out this season as I can't afford to keep changing tyres constantly if I wear the edge off to 1.5 MM and the centre has 4!!

steve

[Marlou]

ring the championship scrutineer he will be able to help before you do any.

[Peter Dixon]

Ste, I suspect the tyre reg will be a bit down to common sense, it'll be there to stop people running around on completely bald and dangerouse tyre's I reckon.

Re the elise, as Mark says, get Peter Elliot to have a look at it, he'll tell you what needs doing etc.

[the youth]

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

Ste, I suspect the tyre reg will be a bit down to common sense, it'll be there to stop people running around on completely bald and dangerouse tyre's I reckon.

pete that sounds like me at the last rounds in september my tyres looked like slicks!!! lol

still reckon it needs clarifying tho..

steve

[ChrisG99]

This is the moment you have all been waiting for: The regulations in their present form have been accepted by the MSA and we have been granted a Championship permit. Also the descision has been made to include Snetterton. Discussions have already started re filming as TV are already in situ for the F3/GT's so awaiting costs for producing either a DVD or dependant on cost TV time which the club feels would promote the Championship.

[Peter Dixon]

Originally Posted by ChrisG99

This is the moment you have all been waiting for: The regulations in their present form have been accepted by the MSA and we have been granted a Championship permit. Also the descision has been made to include Snetterton. Discussions have already started re filming as TV are already in situ for the F3/GT's so awaiting costs for producing either a DVD or dependant on cost TV time which the club feels would promote the Championship.

I'm sure its not the track everyone wanted but its better than not doing anything at all and reducing it to 12 rounds, breaks up the monotony of croft if anything. Are we all going to have to practice our interview technique for the camera's then!

[JeffC]

just going to back to the cage thing for a minute...

before I go the extent of removing my single side bar and buying and welding in 2 ..

in the regs it says.


5.14 Rollcages
To comply to drawing number(s) 3,4,5 or 6 + side impact protection of K(g) (h


but when you look in the blue book at the diagram, under it says

Drawing No. 12 Optional Reinforcing Members

if the blue book says its optional am i going to be turned away from a meeting if i dont have the extra bar fitted ???

not wanting to P&ss any scruitineer off but if I could avoid fitting them I would prefer to as its a pain to get my old bones in and out with 1 bar in!

[JeffC]

Originally Posted by Peter Dixon

Are we all going to have to practice our interview technique for the camera's then!

well some of us will

[ChrisG99]

Peter,

I think that was what made the final desision re Snetterton not ideal (distance) but we would have ended up with 3 Croft meetings together.
Hopefully the DVD/TV idea will come to fruition and if we can manage somewhere near a full grid (43) we could have on hell of a Championship weekend.

[ChrisG99]

Originally Posted by JeffC

just going to back to the cage thing for a minute...

before I go the extent of removing my single side bar and buying and welding in 2 ..

in the regs it says.


5.14 Roll cages
To comply to drawing number(s) 3,4,5 or 6 + side impact protection of K(g) (h


but when you look in the blue book at the diagram, under it says

Drawing No. 12 Optional Reinforcing Members

if the blue book says its optional am i going to be turned away from a meeting if i don't have the extra bar fitted ???

not wanting to P&ss any scruitineer off but if I could avoid fitting them I would prefer to as its a pain to get my old bones in and out with 1 bar in!

As Peter Elliott had a big hand in writing the Safety regs for 2012 as he said in the past he was unsure what was meant in the past. So may I suggest if you are unsure of anything technical you contact Peter and I would think he will put all things straight as to what is required for 2012.

[Marlou]

Hi all
Contrary to popular opinion scruitineers are here to help you race.
so ask if you are unsure.

[skeggy]

Originally Posted by JeffC

just going to back to the cage thing for a minute...

before I go the extent of removing my single side bar and buying and welding in 2 ..

in the regs it says.


5.14 Rollcages
To comply to drawing number(s) 3,4,5 or 6 + side impact protection of K(g) (h


but when you look in the blue book at the diagram, under it says

Drawing No. 12 Optional Reinforcing Members

if the blue book says its optional am i going to be turned away from a meeting if i dont have the extra bar fitted ???

not wanting to P&ss any scruitineer off but if I could avoid fitting them I would prefer to as its a pain to get my old bones in and out with 1 bar in!

Jeff,

I see what you mean but I just took it (Dia 12) to mean optional but they put the door bars in for some people that are not required to have them.

To be fair did your really expect the MSA to make sense