24Hrs. at Mt. panorama-Bathurst

[gttouring]

Now here is a great idea- i hope the SportsCar worls decides to play the Oz card, the race was thrilling and that 427 Monaro wow. could it make a 24 hr. champion ship globally?-Spa-Bathurst LeMans, maybe make sebring or Road america a 24hr. race?
thoughts...

[GTRMagic]

I am not sure how the car would go on some of the more technical European tracks... Bathurst requires a big engine and reasonable suspension, in that order....

I doubt in a head to head fight in a Works Porsche that it could survive being pushed for 24 hrs

[rdjones]

I thought Porsche sent a couple of semi-work 996 to Barhurst...........

[racer69]

There were 4 996 GT3RS's at Bathurst, one each from Cirtek, Graham Nash Motorsport, Seikel Motorsport & PHR Scuderia (which was crashed in qualifying).

The Monaro was alot faster than anything else, but the Cirtek led for something like 19 hours straight. This was the Holden's first race also, it had only done 500km testing prior to the event, so with abit of development it will be interesting to see what it can do, if all goes to plan it should make it overseas soon as well.

It was a great race, and i can't wait to head back there this year again.

[Rick]

My understanding is the Monaro sits alongside the FIA GT/Le Mans GTS cars - Vette, Listers, Ferrari 550 etc ( if it went overseas) whereas at Bathurst all the others were FIA N-GT/Le Mans GT class cars. Can someone confirm if this is right, and if so it was fighting somewhat out of it's division!

[RacingManiac]

I thought that Monaro was more of a V8 Supercar type of car? The engine was from C5R but much of the suspension work and stuff is closer to a V8 Supercar kind of stuff? And I think it was heavier than the GTS car for Le Mans...less aero-centric as well...

[racer69]

The Monaro was built to Australian Nations Cup regulations, which is effectively N-GT/LM-GT. Cirtek is running a pair of 996 GT3RS Porsche's in this years Nations Cup Championship. Others car include the Ferrari 360GT

[paul-collins]

Is Bathurst FIA licensed? That downhill section looks like it doesn't have much safety built in.

Not that I'm advocating changes. The Speed coverage of the 24h (and Aussie V8 1000) is the first time I've seen this circuit, and MY GOD it's excellent.

[Nivola]

paul-collins you need to get your hands on what the place was like in the 60's and 70's mate. No Chase those where the days. (Don Watson)

[Morris 1100]

Originally posted by Nivola
paul-collins you need to get your hands on what the place was like in the 60's and 70's mate. No Chase those where the days. (Don Watson)

Don Watson was killed after the chase was built.

[racer69]

Originally posted by paul-collins
Is Bathurst FIA licensed? That downhill section looks like it doesn't have much safety built in.

Not that I'm advocating changes. The Speed coverage of the 24h (and Aussie V8 1000) is the first time I've seen this circuit, and MY GOD it's excellent.

Certainly is FIA licenced. As Nivola says if you can get your hands on stuff from the 60s and 70s, even early 80s, one mistake and you were off into the trees. (As Dick Johnson found out).

Ahh the days before the chase, the fabulous second hump on conrod

[alfasud]

Originally posted by Rick
My understanding is the Monaro sits alongside the FIA GT/Le Mans GTS cars - Vette, Listers, Ferrari 550 etc ( if it went overseas) whereas at Bathurst all the others were FIA N-GT/Le Mans GT class cars. Can someone confirm if this is right, and if so it was fighting somewhat out of it's division!

Both the GT (GT2/GTS) rules (article 258 of appendix J on FIA website) and N-GT (article 257) require "The engine must retain the original cylinder block, cylinder heads, valve angles, number and location of camshafts and firing order."

So this would require the same engine block, heads etc as the production Monaro and I don't think this was the case, so the 427 Monaro would not be eligible for either.

However reading the rules a bit more, assuming Holden did produce a production run of cars with the same block, heads etc, then the larger, heavier, more powerfull, more modified cars like the Monaro, fit in GT (not N-GT) alongside Ferrari 550, Lister and Viper.

There is a page on the FIA website that suggests that N-GT cars should be for cars with power output of "400 to 470 hp". I think the Monaro is a little more powerfull than that, so N-GT would seem to be the wrong category.
http://www.fia.com/presse/gtupdt-a/24-01-00.htm

[Nivola]

morris 1100 that was the point i was making.
never forget that day

[racer69]

Originally posted by alfasud
So this would require the same engine block, heads etc as the production Monaro and I don't think this was the case, so the 427 Monaro would not be eligible for either.

However reading the rules a bit more, assuming Holden did produce a production run of cars with the same block, heads etc, then the larger, heavier, more powerfull, more modified cars like the Monaro, fit in GT (not N-GT) alongside Ferrari 550, Lister and Viper.

Anyone know the specs for the HRT 427 Monaro, that is apparently the car the Nations Cup Machine is based on.

If/When it races overseas i'm pretty sure it'd be in N-GT/LM-GT. Remember it was outqualified by the 360GT Ferrari at Bathurst and (even though due to problems), trailed the Cirtek Porsche for 19 hours, both of which are N-GT cars.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by racer69
Anyone know the specs for the HRT 427 Monaro, that is apparently the car the Nations Cup Machine is based on.

To talk about being based on a production car, implies that such a production car exists. I understand a mock up/prototype was built and some orders were taken. I'm not sure deposits were paid, or if any car construction has begun.

My understanding is that at the time of the 24hr race there were two 427 Monaros - the race car and the HRT 427 mock up/prototype. So to me, that currently makes it a prototype, not a production based GT.

These pages seem to have some info, but how accurate I don't know:

http://newsmotoring.news.com.au/dail...E17002,00.html
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...ar.mv&num=1488

If/When it races overseas i'm pretty sure it'd be in N-GT/LM-GT. Remember it was outqualified by the 360GT Ferrari at Bathurst and (even though due to problems), trailed the Cirtek Porsche for 19 hours, both of which are N-GT cars.

First you have to build a suitable production run - for exampe there are quite a lot of Porsche GT3's around, but I'm not certain what the requirement is. Then you have to build the race car complying with the rules for either GT (GT2) or N-GT:

http://www.fia.com/regle/REG_TEC/Ann...xtes/257-a.pdf
http://www.fia.com/regle/REG_TEC/Ann...xtes/258-a.pdf

It's not a lobbying/parity based formula (like Nations cup in Australia), where Holden can run to the FIA and say "we were outqualified by the Ferrari" so you have to let us have XYZ. In the main, you build the production cars and run them according to the rules.

The main restrictions would appear to be what parts you can change (N-GT is more restrictive than GT) and a system of inlet restrictors based on weight and engine capacity. In the case of a 1300kg+ car with a 6000-7000cc engine with 2 valves/cylinder, it's either one 45.5 or 2 x 32.5mm diameter restrictors in N-GT, or 1 x 49.6 / 2 x 35.4mm for GT.

In theory, when and if Holden build enough production cars, they could apply to the FIA to run in either category.

[racer69]

I think it is 75 for N-GT and 50 for GTS, i think

Remember also that BMW ran their M3 V8 in 2001 with no models of that spec car being built, under organisers discretion, similiar to what is happening with the Moanro.

To get some real racing rather than parity racing, i reckon Procar should go with the FIA and just let them go, with the appropriate restrictors applied within the FIA rules.